Re: eliminate public education

[George Cunningham <gkc@LOUISVILLE.EDU>]

ken,

Got your point.  Clever, the way you managed to squeeze in your 1500 on the
SAT.  Next, are you going to tell us about  your 150 on the Stanford-Binet.
How did you do on the WAIS-R?  Surely, you were a Merit scholarship winner.
Lets hear about that, in addition to the stellar GRE scores that got you a
scholarship.

Your purpose, of course, was to make an academic point and has nothing to do
with letting us all know how high your scores are on all these tests.

I was asked to make a present a presentation about intelligence assessment
for the local chapter of the Menses society.  It was an enjoyable evening, I
got a nice dinner, and the group was quick to laugh at my jokes.  A pretty
bright group as you would expect.  As I talked to them, one characteristic
seemed to jump out.  They all had rather mundane jobs.  There was a
waitress, driver for UPS, a Ford assembly line worker, etc. .  It seemed
like they needed this organization to endorse their obvious high
intelligence.  They did not appear to be in occupations where there natural
intelligence could manifest itself.  Is this what is happening here?  Ken,
George, and Victor do not need to tell us about their test scores to make us
think they are smart.  Their messages do that.  What a wonderfully erudite
summary Victor gave us about the history of anti-semiticism in Germany.

George K. Cunningham
University of Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "kber" <kber@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: eliminate public education


> George Cunningham wrote:
>
> > Ken,
> >
> > I find it interesting how people who criticize standardized tests always
> > have to preface the discussion by proclaiming how well they, themselves
do
> > on such tests.  If these tests are so awful, why  do they go to such
lengths
> > to tell us what a wonderful reader, test taker, intelligent person they
are.
> > Isn't this all meaningless if the test are no good?
> >
> > George K. Cunningham
> > University of Louisville
> >
>
> No, Goerge, you totally misinterpret.  I point out that I don't view the
test
> scores as particularly meaningful, and include my hiugh scores to prove
that I
> am not taking my position to justify my doing badly on same.  Were I
taking the
> position I do, and had scored, asy, only 530 total on SATs instead of
> around1500, I could justifiably be accused for my position.
>
> I have previously noted my expereience of being able to raise the scores
of
> others significantly in short periods of time.  That doesn't necessarily
make
> me an excellent teacher (although I think I am, for toher reasons, in my
> regular classroom), but merely illustrative of the fact of how easy it is
to
> prep for such tests, which to my mind challneges the validity of any
inferences
> being drawn from their scores.
>
> In answer to your final sentence, you are the one syaing the tests are "no
> good."  The position of mosts of us on this baord is that overreliance
upon
> them is distorted and leads to very inaccuarte conclusion (inferences)
about
> the pople who generated those scores.  I am perfectly willing to use
socres on
> standardzied tests as one (very) small piece of information, but I
certainly
> consider them not of particularly wieghty value.  Even were they reliable,
> which in my expereince of preparing people to(re-)take them, they are not,
an
> instrument can be highly reliable and yet still invlaid.  For the purposes
for
> which many would such tests, I believe the inferences to be drawn are NOT
> valid.  And I would make that statement about my onw test socres, even as
I
> also acknowledge that my uniserivty (Catholic) largley chose to give my my
> scholarship based on my GRE scores.
>
> Ken Bernstein

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