Re: Question

[DWMINERESQ@aol.com]

What Bob is suggesting is that we take  advantage of what Arne and company 
are giving us: venues with media  presence where education reform is the 
focus.  
    Indeed Arne and company will  do everything they can to control the 
venue as well as the messages  received and delivered through and by the media, 
but every action by them  to stymie our message, when exposed, works 
against them, and they, I'm  sure, are sensitive that they are most subject to 
such exposure when they  have gathered media to promote their message.  
    They lock us out; we talk to the media  about why we think they locked 
us out -- they are afraid of honest  discussion.  
    They tell us to take down our signs,  and we ask WHY.   
    Basically we engage them.  
    The rules of engagement are to be  polite but not be pushed around. 
   Arne and Company are skilled at  using  "Town Halls" and "Information 
Gathering Forums" to promote their  agenda.   What we may have learned from 
the Health Care debate is that  such occasions may also be used to bring 
dissent to the attention of the media,  hopefully in a better manner than we saw 
displayed by those opposing Health Care  reform . . .  but still as dramatic.
    When I was running against an  incumbent school board member who 
scheduled televised forums at all our  district high schools,  I made a point to 
attend all the forums and be near  the head of the question-line to ask 
questions such as "Will you explain to us  taxpayers why you and the other school 
board members are giving yourselves more  money for part time work than you 
are paying some teachers for full time  work?"  
    I believe I ended up getting more  mileage out of the town hall 
meetings than my opponent. 
    We might want to draft similar  core issue questions to pose to Arne 
and Company either directly or through the  media.  
    Possible Examples; "Will you explain  to us why our country should 
expect  you to improve education in all 50  states when  the non-partisan 
Chicago Commercial Club recently  reported that in fact you failed to improve the 
Chicago school system as  you have claimed?"
    "If the policies you are pushing are  so good, why do you feel the need 
to  extort states to gain agreement  with your positions?"
    To do any of this requires time,  talent, and money.  We got a ton of 
talent, a little time, and  probably even less money.   And we don't have any 
drug or  insurance company underwriting our efforts.  We need people to  
scout venues, put up signs, hand out flyers, pose questions at a  microphone, 
and talk with reporters.  
    It could be a lot of fun. I'm willing  to expend 36 hours, the cost of 
a room (hopefully shared), and a round trip  ticket to one of these venues, 
but I think we need a group - ideally a mob - to  make the occasion 
effective.
    Any takers?
Dave Miner
    
 
 
In a message dated 8/17/2009 12:44:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
bobschaeffer@earthlink.net writes:

To some  extent, assessment reformers can create our own "public debates" 
by  showing up at the upcoming Duncan, Sharpton, Gingrich road show and  
challenging those speakers on the lack of evidence supporting the  
snake-oil proposals they continue to pitch.  Here's the latest  
information on their tour schedule

Philadelphia -- September  29
New Orleans -- November 3
Baltimore -- November 13


Tauna  Rogers wrote:
> I should have phrased my proposed challenge to the NCSL  
> differently...not that they have the power to "get the debates going"  
> but that we could appeal to them to CALL FOR national  debates.
>
> Also, I wanted to add that I think Dave Miner is  quite right that 
> Obama and Duncan would be highly unlikely to concede  to participating 
> in debates where they could not control the mike,  questions, and the 
> questioner. But I think that is exactly how the  challenge should be 
> presented to them, that they submit to fair and  DEMOCRATIC debates in 
> which neither side is allowed to control or  frame the debate. If they 
> refuse, wouldn't that alone say a  lot?
>
> Tauna
>
>
> ----- Original Message  ----- From: "Tauna Rogers" <taunar@plateautel.net>
> To:  <arn-l@interversity.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:57  PM
> Subject: Re: [arn-l] Question
>
>
>> Yes,  there are negatives, always roadblocks. It really does get
>>  discouraging. But tell me if you think the following idea has 
>>  possibilities.
>>
>> I recently sent a message with a link  to statements from the Education
>> Standing Committee of the  National Conference of State Legislatures. 
>> If you
>> go  to the link you have to scroll down a bit to read their statements  
>> about
>> lifting charter school caps and the  impositionof national standards. It
>> seems they oppose both. Here's  the link again:
>>
>>  
http://www.ncsl.org/Default.aspx?TabID=773&tabs=855,22,634#Public_Charter  
>>
>>
>> Maybe I am grasping at straws, but would  there be a way to appeal to 
>> them
>> and through them to  get national debates going?
>>
>> Three key excerpts from  the NCSL statements:
>>
>> "The Department of Education's  emphasis on charter schools as a means to
>> improve struggling  schools is a regulatory step that goes beyond the
>> legislative  intent of Congress. This action could have the effect of
>> usurping  state chartering authority and preempting state 
>> constitutions.  It
>> is also beyond the limits of the language creating the  Department, 
>> but for
>> what end? If a medicine were  discovered that helps 17% of people, 
>> doesn't do
>>  anything for 46% and hurts 37%, would the Food and Drug  Administration
>> approve and encourage that medicine for  all?"
>>
>> "We have already seen and experienced the damage  that can be done 
>> when the
>> federal government adopts a  component of reform from one state and 
>> imposes
>> it  upon the other 49."
>>
>> "Federal statutory construction in  the legislation creating the U.S.
>> Department of Education  prohibits federal involvement in a national 
>> test.
>>  Similar language in NCLB prohibits federal involvement in  standards,
>> assessments and curricula. These protections against  federal 
>> involvement in
>> state and local issues should  be adhered to and continued.  It is the
>> position of the  National Conference of State Legislatures that there 
>> is  no
>> legitimate or constructive role for federal involvement in  national 
>> academic
>> standards or a unified national  test, especially while the structural 
>> flaws
>> of NCLB  remain unaddressed."
>>
>>
>>  Tauna
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From:  "gerald bracey" <gbracey@q.com>
>> To:  <arn-l@interversity.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 6:37  PM
>> Subject: Re: [arn-l]  Question
>>
>>
>> Of course, to "publicly"  challenge them, the public has to know about it
>> which means  getting the media's attention.  And getting it in a big way.
>>  Jay Mathews wrote about my challenges to Obama's Hispanic Chamber  of
>> Commerce Speech, but that was over very quickly (I don't know  how many
>> people see his online column).
>>
>>  You'd need to have someone in many cities to have simultaneous 
>>  protests in a
>> public place like city hall or the state capital and  let the media 
>> know in
>> advance it was coming.   Still not sure the media would show up, but 
>> it would
>>  be necessary to do something that showed that the challenge was broad  
in
>> scope.  And the protesters would have to be diverse.   I don't know that
>> ethnic diversity is necessary.  It sure  would help but getting blacks on
>> board with Obama as president and  Al Sharpton "leading" a reform 
>> effort will
>> make it  harder; blacks have, in general, been the strongest 
>> supporters  of
>> NCLB and they might well say "now that we've got something that  will 
>> help us
>> you guys (whites) don't want us to have  it).  I'm thinking age diversity
>> because on another list  someone already lamented that it was mostly us
>> grayhairs who were  criticizing the "plan."
>>
>> You need to convince parents  with kids in elementary schools or about to
>> enter them, that  Duncan is pushing poison.  You can't count on college
>>  students as you could in the Vietnam days because then they, as 
>>  always, had
>> the time to protest without losing money or getting  fired, had 
>> friends who
>> were wounded or dead, and  could be mobilized in large numbers.  College
>> students mostly  don't have kids at risk.  People surviving on a 
>> salary,  or
>> two salaries aren't likely candidates to spend a lot of time  waving 
>> banners
>> and marching.
>>
>>  Sorry to see so many negatives.  I'm open to ideas, but it's gonna be  
>> hard.
>> The best thing I've seen so far is Diane  Ravitch's letter to the 
>> Department.
>> As a former  assistant secretary with a reputation as a conservative and
>>  reformer" in favor of high standards, she carries a gravitas that 
>>  most of us
>> can't command.
>>
>> The unions, of  course, the natural enemies of the plan are worthless.
>>
>>  Jerry
>>
>>
>> -------Original  Message-------
>>
>> From: Tauna Rogers
>> Date:  8/16/2009 4:22:18 PM
>> To: arn-l@interversity.org
>>  Subject: Re: [arn-l] Question
>>
>> ----- Original Message  -----
>> From: <DWMINERESQ@aol.com>
>> To:  <arn-l@interversity.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:53  PM
>> Subject: Re: [arn-l]  Question
>>
>>
>>> All of us should and  Obama/Duncan should be confronted with  such a
>>> challenge  every time they appear in public.  However, I believe it   
>>> very
>>> unlikely
>>> that either  would ever consent to an event where they felt they  did 
>>>  not
>>> control the mike and the questions or the  questioner.
>>> Dave  Miner
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated  8/16/2009 4:50:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>  taunar@plateautel.net writes:
>>>
>>> What is  to  prevent those of us who oppose much of the Obama/Duncan 
>>>  recipe
>>> for  education reform from joining forces and  publicly challenging 
>>> them to
>>> submit  to  nationally televised debates?
>>>
>>>  Tauna=
>>>
>>>  -----------------------------------------------
>>> Report list  problems to listmom@interversity.net
>>
>>
>>  
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