Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Figures Don't Lie - Iowa Rules! & Warren Buffet

[Mike Kluznik <mkluznik@HOTMAIL.COM>]

> From: tdkluznik@uswest.net
> Reply-To: tdkluznik@uswest.net
> To: "Mike Kluznik" <mkluznik@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Figures Don't Lie - Iowa Rules! & Warren Buffet
> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:10:16 -0600
>
> Mike,
> My suggestion to teachers and others interested in stopping
> this train wreck is
> to point out that the business process is far from perfect
> and regularly leads
> to very disappointing results. For example, Xerox is a
> financial basket case and
> Daimler-Chryler is closing plants. I am sure that both
> companies had incentive
> plans which rewarded their top performers. In addition, I am
> sure that each
> company had quarterly goals, as well as Vision and Mission
> Statements. So, if
> both companies followed the business model why is one
> (Xerox) likely not to
> exist in the near future and the other (Daimler-Chysler) to
> be quite different
> in the near future? Do we want to apply the business model
> which is notorious
> for focusing on short term goals (i.e., Quarterly Earnings)
> when dealing with
> something so complex and long-term as the education of our
> children? Children
> are educated over 18-22 years and it is not possible to say
> at age 14 that a
> child will or will not be a success based on any test.
> Further more, how do we
> define success?
> Ted
>
> Mike Kluznik wrote:
>
> > >From: Mike Kluznik <mkluznik@HOTMAIL.COM>
> > >Reply-To: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
> > >To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> > >Subject: Re: Figures Don't Lie - Iowa Rules! & Warren Buffet
> > >Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:22:13 -0500
> > >
> > >Excellent points, Monty.
> > >Isn't there one state out of the 50 that doesn't use high-stakes
> testing?
> > >And isn't that state Nebraska?
> > >For sake of argument, let's say it is Nebraska.  The latter state is
> where
> > >Warren Buffet lives.  He is considered the most succesful investor in
> > >history.  I recently finished a book about him.  There are many
> simplistic
> > >ways of evaluating a company and its stock.  However, Buffet eschews
> such
> > >simplistic methods.  He would never judge a company by using only one
> > >factor.  He looks at a wide variety of factors, including simply
> whether he
> > >feels comfortable in evaluating a particular company.  For example, he
> has
> > >stayed away from high-tech stocks such as Microsoft, partly because he
> says
> > >he simply doesn't understand them.  On the other hand, he understands
> what
> > >Dairy Queen is all about, so he bought it.
> > >When he evaluates a company, he expends a lot of time and energy doing
> a
> > >comprehensive and thoughtful analysis.
> > >I doubt that Warren Buffet would ever evaluate a school based on one
> set of
> > >test scores.  In any case, we would do well to incorporate his
> philosophy
> > >into evaluating schools.  We should look at many factors.
> > >When the Why-Aren't-Schools-Run-More-Like-Businesses crowd whines about
> > >public schools, they conveniently forget about business people like
> Buffet.
> > >Good luck on the Today show.
> > >Mike
> > >P.S. For those of you who don't know anything about investing, Warrn
> Buffet
> > >didn't sing "Margaritaville" and he doesn't wear jeans & loud Hawaain
> (sp?)
> > >shirts.  That's his brother Jimmy Buffet.
> > >
> > >>From: Monty Neill <monty@FAIRTEST.ORG>
> > >>Reply-To: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
> > >>To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> > >>Subject: Re: Figures Don't Lie - Iowa Rules!
> > >>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:46:55 -0500
> > >>
> > >>I would not argue causation. Most lower-scoring states with more tests
> > >>and higher stakes are southern states with historically weaker
> education
> > >>systems. They moved to testing to "improve" schools on the cheap (and
> > >>had state-centralized systems, making it easier to implement), and in
> > >>some cases leveraged the tests for more money for schools.
> Improvements
> > >>have been marginal however, so the point is not that testing causes
> > >>lower scores in these states but that 1) it does not induce
> improvement,
> > >>and 2) why adopt an improvement strategy from states that have the
> worst
> > >>systems and can't show improvement on independent measures and have
> the
> > >>worst dropout rates?
> > >>
> > >>Monty Neill
> > >>
> > >>Laura VaN wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > >From: Monty Neill <monty@FAIRTEST.ORG>
> > >> > >FairTest has also shown that states with less testing and lower
> stakes
> > >> > >also tend to make better progress on NAEP than state with more
> testing
> > >> > >and higher stakes. Monty Neill
> > >> >
> > >> > I wonder whether this is because they don't test, or because their
> > >> > population is such that they haven't felt the "crises" (real or
> > >>imagined).
> > >> > Iowa (the example I know about) I believe still does test the
> students
> > >>-
> > >>and
> > >> > the test scores come out fairly well so that I wonder if they just
> > >>haven't
> > >> > felt the need to attach high stakes to the tests.  MOre simply - is
> > >>this
> > >> > causation or correlation?
> > >> >
> > >> > remember to speak out again the silencing of dissent
> > >> > goto http://angelfire.com/fl4/eca
> > >> >
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