Re: Is this acceptable?

[Margaret Davis <margd@FLASH.NET>]

> I'm beginning to wonder whether AISD is where all the petty tyrants end up
> when they get pushed out of other school systems.
============

the head petty tyrant of Alvin is out and i believe they have promoted him.
only to be replaced by another one maybe worse...he's got a sweet face......

Ownby the Santa Fe Superintendent who cost that district an enormous amount
on the football prayer case (santa fe's our neighbor) was promoted to region
3.  I think Tiemann (our former super) was sent to region 11... but don't
remember now...was just glad to know he's gone.  to hear that mike moses was
contracted to find us a superintendent and then the one our trustees choose
was from Pearland (neighbor) and our director of admin services (roberts)
retired from here and went there at the very same time they were
implementing uniforms there.....hmmmm

but you aint seen tyrants till you hear what's going down in Pearland.  i'll
put up a copy of a very rough transcript a workshop that took place on april
21.....(this is how they implemented uniforms there)        you decide for
yourself.

Cain: . . . the management, the HR one is I think May 16th or 17th and you'
ll probably get something the end of June or first of July.  [inaudible] is
going to take a little while longer.  Okay, student dress code.  Which will,
nothing will be done until after [inaudible] you've talked about . . .

Bittick: See, I want it to be for next year just like you did the employee
one.  I want us to say, we've been talking about this damn thing for 3
years, we're gonna do it now, and this is how we're gonna do it.  That's
just how I feel.

(?): Well, but, and I agree with you.

(?) [laughter]  But.  [laughter]

(?) Until somebody enforces it . . . . .

Roberts: Oh well, then, well wait, now wait, you talk. . . . when you're
talking standardized dress . . .

Bittick: I'm saying do it now![slams hand]

Roberts: Uniform, is, it's not a matter of enforcing it

(?) It's a varitable uniform, it's just. . .

Roberts: It's different than enforcing, you know, and measuring the size of
pants and what you're talking about now.  That's an open book.  But, on a
standardized dress, other than keeping in the (don't get me wrong, it doesn'
t have to be enforced, but it's so obvious when it's not enforced.  If you'
ve got a Hawaiian shirt on everybody else has on a red one . . . . (Cain
laughing) . . . that day, or you're out of dress code, it's obvious to
everybody, not just . . .

J. Watson: I agree with that.

Bittick: And I appreciate how you want to phase this in and give everybody
time to moan and grown and bitch, or whatever, but I think it's just like
employees, just say BOOM, we've talked about this

(?) [inaudible, several people talking over each other]

(?): Not only are you gonna, not only are we gonna rezone . . . (Cain
laughing). . . you're gonna wear some different clothes. . .

(?) [laughter]

Cain: Let me just bring up some things, but certainly we would do whatever
the Board says.  If . . .

(?) [laughter]

Cain: Okay.  The main, okay, the earliest it could be done would be in May.
Okay.  I don't even know that we could . . . because it, it would have to be
written out extensively.  I don't know that by the time we have to publish
the May agenda, we could get all of that done.  So that would put it at the
end of May and then, for the parents, we've got to tell them if March if
there's gonna be a change.  Just because people buy clothes and, and that's
a real weak area when they say, 'well, we've already bought all this,' and
that just kind of adds to the fire and the fury.  What I would like to do
is, by the end of the summer, . . .

(?) The second July meeting perhaps?  (Cain laughing)

Cain: Uh, and let 'em bitch about it for a year and say they don't like it,
but then go ahead and then no one can say 'we didn't know ahead of time'.  I
know you don't want to wait another year, uh, but that would work, but we
can put one together by next week if you want one.  I don't think you would
be as pleased with it as if we had some time . . . First of all, y'all have
different ideas.  So, if we put something together then you're gonna say
then this wasn't this, and that you wanted that, and then we can't get
together.  I'm gonna put it together.

Garrison: That's what I like.  [inaudible].  I'm serious.  I appreciate you
putting yourself on the spot for that.  I'm assuming that you mean that you'
re going to put it together with a minimum of other people's input.

Cain: I'm going to take the one that was not brought to you that should have
been brought to you before it was like, well, should we do denim, and we
started doing all that stuff and get back to we're gonna have . . . to me,
this is not that hard.  You can wear khaki pants.  You can wear navy pants.
You can wear blue and red or yellow [inaudible, people talking over each
other] polo shirts.

(?) Every school has two colors shirt they can wear.  One is common and
everybody helps you pick one.

 [inaudible, I don't want to add a whole lot to your plate, but if you're
gonna do it, why couldn't you have one, because you already know what you
wanna have anyway].

Cain: Because right now, saying this is what I'm going to do, I'm not
thinking of all the exceptions.  I mean, I think there, I think things need
to be written in that need to be explanatory.  That, what are we gonna do
about jackets?  They just had a big jacket deal somewhere.  I can't remember
where it was.  What, can they have the little, a little something on the
shirts?  You know, that's always a big thing.  That, that's the stuff that
takes some time.  I think, if we do this, it's gonna be a major big deal.
So, we oughta do this . . .

Smith: Because I'm hearing more stuff about let's just go to uniforms.  I
think it was a year ago, but this dress code out at the schools is a joke.
I mean, it, from what I am seeing and hearing, it is a joke.  These teachers
are not informing anybody . . .

Cain: Okay.  Okay.  Here's . . . and I want to speak to you individually.
You're telling [Cain laughing], you're telling me, if I bring a dress code
similar to what I said, simple, but this is what it is, basic, that . . .

(Bittick?): BOOM.  [laughter]

Cain: You are going to stand tall, it doesn't . . .

(Bittick?): ABSOLUTELY.

Cain:  . . . matter, without batting an eye,

(Bittick?): Absolutely, I will.

Cain: Trisha?

 [inaudible, several people talking over one another.]

Cain: Write that down, get that in.  (Cain laughing)

(?): Bringing it when?

Cain: Uh, hmm.

Bittick: I wanted this last year.

Cain: By May 8th.  Or, if nothing else, announce enough that people know
[laughter] don't go out and buy some Bermuda shorts.  [laughter].  What'd he
say?

(Gant?): No, I'm laughin' . . . I'm lookin' at faces [mocking peoples'
reaction(s)] agenda comes out, oh man . . .

(?) [much loud laughter]

(?) You know what, and the reason I say that is because I've received
several phone calls this week already about okay, alright, where do you
stand on this?  It's going to be on every candidate's mind.  It's on
everything we've gotten so far.

(?) Oh, I know, and I've just, I, I, I, did a duh

 [inaudible, multiple people talking]

Cain: You did the Jeffer-sa, the Garrison shuffle?  (Cain laughing)

Bittick: It's still after the election, so it doesn't matter.  They're gonna
ask you the question (Cain laughing), it . . .

 [inaudible]

Cain: Say, are you for it or against it?  I'm against it.  Me too.  (Cain
laughing)

Garrison: You've been outvoted.  (But I voted for it, damn).

(?) Yes, ma'am.  [laughter]

(?) Do you have all the exceptions?  You know, what do we do about girls who
wear skirts?  What do we do about girls who wear dresses?  What do we do
about, you know, jackets?  What do we, do you have all the exceptions?

Cain: No, I'm makin' this up.

(?) Oh, okay . . . [inaudible]  (Cain laughing)

Smith: Before we proceed with this, why don't you get a quick tally because
[inaudible, multiple people talking] if nobody . . .

 [inaudible, multiple people talking]

(?) I bet she knows how you feel about it.

Cain: I'll call Pasadena and I'll call Dickinson 'cause those are the two
main ones that do standardized dress and I'm gonna look at that and I'm
gonna try and simplify it as much as I can.

 [inaudible]

(?) Because it didn't pass last year.

Garrison: I'm for it now.  I was for it then, but we just got too much input
and there was just too many variables.

(Gant?): Well, it didn't pass last time because we asked.  Come and scare
the hell out of us, and we can't fade your heat.  That's what happened.  We
crumbled.

(?) Well, they had too many . . .

 [inaudible, multiple people talking]

(?) [inaudible] Is this district wide?

(?) Yeah, buddy!

Cain: Oh, absolutely, k12.

(?) And, are we gonna dictate to them what colors, or are we gonna allow at
least each campus . . .

(?) She's gonna bring, she's gonna bring you a plan.

(?) Okay, and, because each campus has a color scheme . . . [inaudible,
multiple people talking]

Cain: Now, I really don't mind sayin' at the elementary, I mean, to say you
can pick three color shirts.  I mean, that doesn't bother me.  So, you pick
three color shirts.

(?) [inaudible, multiple people talking]

Bittick: Mr. Watson, you're here.  Can you stand tall with us?

Cain: We got the Watson boys here now.

D. Watson: That's the way, that's the way I've been dressing.

(?) [laughter]  You could go to school.  Our poster child.  [laughter]

(?) You can't, except for pep rallies [laughter].

D. Watson: I'll support it.

Cain: Wait a minute.  I'm.  Are you in?

J. Watson: This is my 231st dress code.  [laughter]  There's gonna be
problems with all of it, uh, some will not pay attention to it, parents'll
fight it.  But if you come to us and say this is what I want, . . .

Cain: It's gonna be a short page.  It's gonna be on one page.

J. Watson: Oh, that's . . . I'm there.

 [inaudible]

Bittick: I don't mean to cram this down your throat . . . (Cain laughing),
but I'm glad you're supportin' this.  (Cain laughing)

Garrison: You've explained this.

(?) Said the mouse to the snake.  (Cain laughing)  [much laughter]

(?) Yeah, the [inaudible], the snake wins!

 [much laughter]

Bittick: Let's stop screwin' around with it.  I wanna do it.  [inaudible]

 [much laughter]

(?) You're a little undecided . . .

 [much laughter]

(?) They said . . . the mouse is dead.  [laughter]

(?) Well, I've been hearing so many complaints from teachers that send kids
to the office [gaveling] . . .

Cain: Okay.

(?)  . . . and the . . .

Cain: Okay.

(?) . . . administration will not do anything about it.

Cain: I DON'T WANNA HEAR . . .

(?) The day you bring it, I'm votin' for it.

Cain: Okay.

(?) But, I didn't say . . . when you bring it.  How's that for an answer?

Cain: Okay.  [inaudible].  Well, if we're gonna do it, we need to do it.  I
mean,

(?) Don't we have two meetings in May?

 [inaudible] [multiple people speaking]

(?) As long as it's after the 5th, it doesn't matter.

Cain: If nothin' else, [inaudible], in the first . . . if we say don't buy .
. . except I hate to do that 'cause then it's like we don't have it together
and then it's like if you're gonna write one, consider this . . . it really
needs to be, we need a standardized dress code and here it is.  I need for y
'all to vote on that.

(?) We can bring it the second one in May.  Bring it whenever you're
comfortable.  You're not in any emergency rush on that.

Cain: To be clear to parents [inaudible]

(?) No, I mean sooner than later, you don't want, but I mean two weeks is
not gonna make any difference in May.  That gives you alotta extra time.

Cain: If we gawn do it, we gawn do it!  I mean, you know.

(?) Or, you could always [inaudible] [laughter]

(?) Don't put it out.

(?) . . . when the agenda comes out . . .

Bittick: I don't think it's gonna matter for y'all, y'all gonna be askin'
questions anyway.

(?) I'm already getting the phone calls from people who don't want it.  Our
kids oughta have freedom of [inaudible noises] . . .

(?) We've got too much freedom now.

 [inaudible] [multiple people speaking]

(?) That's a wonderful looking tattoo Johnny.  [laughter]

Cain: I tell you what.  I tell you what we can do 'cause technically the
Board of the pub, we send the agenda to you early just so y'all can have
more time with it.  We don't have to put it out until 72 hours before, which
is Saturday morning.

(?) [laughter]

(?) That's a plan. [laughter]

Cain: Now, what we could do, is you don't get your agenda [inaudible,
laughter, multiple people speaking] . . . Wednesday is when I'd like to, but
it's usually Thursday and then we post it, Bobby may post it that day.

[inaudible]

(?) We're meeting what days in May?

(?) I'm not gonna tell 'em I'm against the dress code.

[inaudible]

(?) I want another meeting like a hole in the head, but, if we're gonna do
it, we're gonna have to call a meeting and do it on the 15th.  If you don't
want to post it before then, if you don't want to post it before the
election and you want to get anything like a sportin' chance, then you might
as well just schedule a meeting on the 15th and do it.

Cain: But we've always been very sensitive to the people who are running.  I
mean, that's just part of

Bittick: I agree.  We need to be sensitive, but we're 20 seconds too late.

(?) Well, then, that's what I say.  What you might want to do is, let's move
the meeting to the 22nd or the 15th.

Cain: Well, we try to keep one there for, we never know what's gonna happen
the last week of school, you know,

(?) Well, maybe you leave it there, but what I'm sayin' is, is that you

(?) But that almost seems worse to, to call a special meeting for a dress
code and that's the only thing on the agenda.

(?) I wouldn't call a special meeting if you want

(?) Move the second meeting to the 15th, [inaudible] either way you, any way
you slice this, you run into this issue of you jammin' it right in, right
the day before school ends.

Cain: I'm pleased that anyone looked at that.

(?) Well, I've got several phone calls already.

Bittick: Nobody ever damn calls me about these things.

[inaudible]

(?) Yeah, I'll tell you why you get all the calls, 'cause you got a kid in
school . . .

Cain: Yeah.

(?) and I'm surprised you don't . . .

Cain: Yeah.

(?)  . . . but I don't get any calls any more either.

Cain: Yeah.  When you got the kids . . .

(?) I mean, all with all these teachers

(?) And they go, oh, I can call 'em.

(?) You know how to get this resolved?

Cain: I'm waitin' for a date.  I've been waitin' for one all my life.  [Cain
laughing]

(?) Does it really bother you to do it for next year?

Cain: I, hey, I . . .

(?) I know, you'll do anything the board says.

Cain: That's right.

(?) But, does it really bother, would you prefer that we not do it?

Cain: No.  Or, do I prefer it?  I think if we, I think preferably that's a,
I think there's some down side to that.  The bottom line is: if we're gonna
do it, we oughta go ahead and do it.

Garrison: I wanna do it.  As soon as we can and start seein' some
improvement if we're gonna see it.  If we're not gonna see any improvement,
scrap it and go back to [inaudible].

Bittick: I think if we're not gonna do it, we might as well do away with a
dress code period 'cause they're pretty much wearin' whatever they want to
anyway.

Cain: Oh, I know what we do.  I know what it was.  You wear a white shirt.
Each campus has two choices.  A white shirt or the color of their campus.

(?) inaudible.

Cain: And that way, . . .

Garrison: And a spirit shirt on Fridays.

Cain: No.

Roberts: It gives everybody a little bit of uniqueness.

Cain: No.  No.

Garrison: No spirit shirts?

Cain: No, No, that's when you start gettin' into . . .

Bittick: That's when you get into all kinda problems.

(?) You're only gonna do colors.

Cain: Mmm-hmm.

Roberts: Are you gonna do shorts?

(?) Not styles . . .

Cain: No shorts.

Roberts: No shorts and no skorts.

(?) No.

Roberts: Pants only for everybody, men and women.

(?) You have to put in the skirts.

Roberts: Nope.  Nope.

(?) Yes you do, because that . . .

Roberts: Nope, you don't.  There's school districts in Texas that, because
they've got both male and female wearing nothin' but pants.

 [inaudible]

(?) What about a Pentecostal?

Roberts: That's an individual exception.


Margaret
~~~~~~
http://aisdinuniforms.org

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there
must never be a time when we fail to protest. -Elie Wiesel, writer, Nobel
laureate (1928- )

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Flanigan." <Allen.Flanigan@USPTO.GOV>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Is this acceptable?


> I'm beginning to wonder whether AISD is where all the petty tyrants end up
> when they get pushed out of other school systems.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor.Steinbok@VERIZON.NET [mailto:Victor.Steinbok@VERIZON.NET]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:44 AM
> To: ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is this acceptable?
>
>
> At 9:21 PM -0600 2/14/02, Margaret Davis wrote:
> >
> >Seventh/eight grade - girls locker room.  coach wheels in basket of
> >items left in the locker room.  counted 55 items... making all the
> >girls now run 55 laps as punishment.  they had to run 20 laps today
> >and if found walking they wrote down their names and they had run 5
> >additional laps.
> >
> >how could i get an exemption from this kind of abuse when my
> >daughter has never left items in the locker room?  do you consider
> >this fair practice?
> >
> >please respond as I'm really loosing my grip here!!!!!!  this is the
> >kind of abuse these kids are ALWAYS being subjected to.  they had to
> >run laps in elementary school for not participating in a fundraiser.
> >or is this just ALVIN?
> >
> >thanks for your help,
> >margaret
>
> The Geneva Convention has a name for collective punishment... what
> could it be?.. Ah, yes--WAR CRIME! Oh, I forgot, we are not subject
> to the Geneva Convention.
>
> :-) My brain must be melting in this 14F heat.
>
>         VS-)
>

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