Re: The dynamic of group punishment

[Margaret Davis <margd@FLASH.NET>]

thank you allen.

i feel validated. i feel like i may just be able to have that polite candid
discussion at the conference we have scheduled monday at 1pm with the
superintendent, the coach, the head of the athletics dept, the principal,
katie, her dad and myself.

am i going to be able to change anything?  i don't know.  i'll present them
with information and ask them what they propose i do?  i do get the
impression that the movement toward a "collaborative" teamlike approach to
school work will also result in this type of group discipline theory if
misused.  i like linda darling hammond's ideas but they could seriously take
this were it shouldn't go.  working collaboratively with parents from MA,
FL, CO, AZ, NM, TX and many other states to get thru this ordeal with the
uniform policies are a great example of people working together
collaboratively. and yes i suppose you could consider we are being
"punished" as a group when we are unsuccessful.  sad to look at it that way.
but we are all gaining from eachother's mistakes and hopefully helping to
strengthen the arguemnts.  all because of the totalitarian mindset.  can you
imagine working together like this for the common good of mankind?

doesn't it seem odd that my daughter could not become a teacher's aid
without  permission from me and yet I'm not considered when making clothing
and/or discipline decisions?    when katie was nurturing the girl who
refused to come out of the bathroom to go to class because she had forgotten
her super hero costume katie got a Saturday Adjustment Class for skipping.
I thought she was being a good samaritan and deserved recognition for being
compassionate.  In fact I told my daughter if that ever happened again to
say to that young lady to go out there and dress like yourself, cuz she was
a super hero and to write a paper all about herself.  I expressed my
position to the ass-principal who didn't agree with me and gave Katie a SAC
regardless of my belief.

oh well......  i just don't fit in that box do i?

anyway...i thoroughly enjoyed your post,

margaret


----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Flanigan." <Allen.Flanigan@USPTO.GOV>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: The dynamic of group punishment


> Margaret writes,
>
> "I don't get it, do you?", referring to the coach's boot camp tactics in
> punishing the whole team for the untidiness of individuals.
>
> I suspect that this is how high school coaches endeavor to produce modern
> athletes of the caliber of Latrell Sprewell (a professional basketball
> player who physically assaulted his coach), athletes who seem to lack a
> basic understanding of concepts like dignity, respect, maturity, etc.
>
> Sarcasm aside, the supposed notion behind this is approach is to foster
> teamwork, but the logic is flawed, if you ask me.  Enlisting the athletes
as
> cops and snitches to prevent misbehavior in the ranks likely produces the
> opposite of the desired effect, i.e. instead of a sense of camaraderie and
> teamwork, an atmosphere of divisiveness and peer abuse:
>
> "In addition to being unfair, group consequences may turn the
>           group against the person blamed for causing the group to be
> punished. Faced with the prospect of the group being punished for the
> misbehaviour
>           of one or a few, the "heavies" in the group may coerce an
innocent
> youth to step forward and claim the blame for whatever is amiss. This
>           constitutes peer abuse."
>
>
http://www.ombud.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports/Public_Reports/PR34_Building
> _Respect/Building_Respect4.html
>
> I suspect even the military is beginning to recognize the ineffectiveness
> and counterproductivity of such lazy and senseless approaches to
discipline.
> For example, The Navy regs for operating brigs (that's military lingo for
> prisons) says this:  "Mass or group punishment for the offense of an
> individual is strictly prohibited".
>
> http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/1640/five.pdf
>
>  It may get a laugh in "Stripes" when Sargeant Hulka punishes the whole
> platoon for Bill Murray's antics, but I would bet that more effective
drill
> instructors don't rely on this centuries-old behavior modification
approach.
>
> Group punishment impresses me as a holdover from the days when hazing,
> caning, and public humiliation were considered acceptable school
discipline
> methods.
>
> Maybe this coach doesn't know any better; it's easy to fall back on
> old-fashioned habits where discipline is concerned.  I think it would be a
> good idea to have a polite and candid talk with this person about their
> approach to teaching teamwork and cooperation and sportsmanship.  Either
you
> or your daughter could have the conversation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: margd@FLASH.NET [mailto:margd@FLASH.NET]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:17 PM
> To: ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU
> Subject: Re: ALEXANDER
>
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