Re: The dynamic of group punishment

[Margaret Davis <margd@FLASH.NET>]

Sounds like you've had training in conflict resolution <smiling>

Actually Kathie...  my husband signed what is titled Acknowledgement of
Athletic Code of Conduct Policies and the pertinent part of the code that
they reference  that covers them to *inflict* this kind of punishment reads
as follows:

Disciplinary Level and Consequences

3. Coach/athlete/parent conference with additional sport-appropriate
conditioning activities, and a contract detailing ways to improve improper
behavior.

this is the first i've seen of it

but it also says they must abide by UIL rules...so i'm off to research some
more.

but after they made her run laps for not participating in the fundraiser at
Passmore Elementary i really didn't expect anything different at this
school.
just hopeful i guess

I do think this is very misleading language.

and i wish i had the energy and support behind me to take on this issue too
but i only have one of me and that one - my kids miss very much.  but my
husband is becoming an amazing cook!!!!

Margaret
~~~~~~
http://aisdinuniforms.org
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes. -- Henry David Thoreau
(1854)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Humes-Schulz" <humes-schulz@ATTBI.COM>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: The dynamic of group punishment


> doesn't it seem odd that my daughter could not become a teacher's aid
> without  permission from me and yet I'm not considered when making
clothing
> and/or discipline decisions?
>
> I'll betcha that there is a piece of paper on file in  HQ in which you
gave
> your permission for all of this.  I'll bet when you enrolled your child or
> when you filled out some random form there is small print that says you
> agree to "abide by the policies and guidelines of Alvin....."   And that
> constitutes your permission.  And since the policies and guidelines were
> approved by your elected school board, they've got you.
>
> I would recommend that you present your case as unemotionally as possible
> (write it out first), advocate on behalf of all children, and seek to find
a
> solution that meets the needs of both students and the school.  Seek to
find
> the win-win.  If they see you working towards a group solution, they may
be
> more amenable to change.  Don't force them in a box where they would have
to
> admit they are wrong, just help them to understand that they would be more
> likely to achieve THEIR objectives with a different approach.  Start from
> the assumption (even if it is wrong) that both of you want the same thing:
> the best for kids.  Maybe if you label them with  that belief often
enough,
> it will take hold!
>
> Maybe you could suggest a committee of parents and coaches that would
> establish guidelines for behavior.....give them some blah blah blah like
"We
> know you want the best for kids and want your programs to demonstrate best
> practices.  This would give you an opportunity to re-affirm best practices
> with your coaches.  It also would make your job easier if the kids and
> parents were aware of the policies ahead of time."  Use that word "best
> practices" a lot because you can certainly demoinstrate that they are not
> currently using them.  Give them a little wiggle room.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Kathie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List
> [mailto:ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU]On Behalf Of Margaret Davis
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 4:43 PM
> To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The dynamic of group punishment
>
>
> thank you allen.
>
> i feel validated. i feel like i may just be able to have that polite
candid
> discussion at the conference we have scheduled monday at 1pm with the
> superintendent, the coach, the head of the athletics dept, the principal,
> katie, her dad and myself.
>
> am i going to be able to change anything?  i don't know.  i'll present
them
> with information and ask them what they propose i do?  i do get the
> impression that the movement toward a "collaborative" teamlike approach to
> school work will also result in this type of group discipline theory if
> misused.  i like linda darling hammond's ideas but they could seriously
take
> this were it shouldn't go.  working collaboratively with parents from MA,
> FL, CO, AZ, NM, TX and many other states to get thru this ordeal with the
> uniform policies are a great example of people working together
> collaboratively. and yes i suppose you could consider we are being
> "punished" as a group when we are unsuccessful.  sad to look at it that
way.
> but we are all gaining from eachother's mistakes and hopefully helping to
> strengthen the arguemnts.  all because of the totalitarian mindset.  can
you
> imagine working together like this for the common good of mankind?
>
> doesn't it seem odd that my daughter could not become a teacher's aid
> without  permission from me and yet I'm not considered when making
clothing
> and/or discipline decisions?    when katie was nurturing the girl who
> refused to come out of the bathroom to go to class because she had
forgotten
> her super hero costume katie got a Saturday Adjustment Class for skipping.
> I thought she was being a good samaritan and deserved recognition for
being
> compassionate.  In fact I told my daughter if that ever happened again to
> say to that young lady to go out there and dress like yourself, cuz she
was
> a super hero and to write a paper all about herself.  I expressed my
> position to the ass-principal who didn't agree with me and gave Katie a
SAC
> regardless of my belief.
>
> oh well......  i just don't fit in that box do i?
>
> anyway...i thoroughly enjoyed your post,
>
> margaret
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Flanigan." <Allen.Flanigan@USPTO.GOV>
> To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 4:29 PM
> Subject: The dynamic of group punishment
>
>
> > Margaret writes,
> >
> > "I don't get it, do you?", referring to the coach's boot camp tactics in
> > punishing the whole team for the untidiness of individuals.
> >
> > I suspect that this is how high school coaches endeavor to produce
modern
> > athletes of the caliber of Latrell Sprewell (a professional basketball
> > player who physically assaulted his coach), athletes who seem to lack a
> > basic understanding of concepts like dignity, respect, maturity, etc.
> >
> > Sarcasm aside, the supposed notion behind this is approach is to foster
> > teamwork, but the logic is flawed, if you ask me.  Enlisting the
athletes
> as
> > cops and snitches to prevent misbehavior in the ranks likely produces
the
> > opposite of the desired effect, i.e. instead of a sense of camaraderie
and
> > teamwork, an atmosphere of divisiveness and peer abuse:
> >
> > "In addition to being unfair, group consequences may turn the
> >           group against the person blamed for causing the group to be
> > punished. Faced with the prospect of the group being punished for the
> > misbehaviour
> >           of one or a few, the "heavies" in the group may coerce an
> innocent
> > youth to step forward and claim the blame for whatever is amiss. This
> >           constitutes peer abuse."
> >
> >
>
http://www.ombud.gov.bc.ca/publications/reports/Public_Reports/PR34_Building
> > _Respect/Building_Respect4.html
> >
> > I suspect even the military is beginning to recognize the
ineffectiveness
> > and counterproductivity of such lazy and senseless approaches to
> discipline.
> > For example, The Navy regs for operating brigs (that's military lingo
for
> > prisons) says this:  "Mass or group punishment for the offense of an
> > individual is strictly prohibited".
> >
> > http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/1640/five.pdf
> >
> >  It may get a laugh in "Stripes" when Sargeant Hulka punishes the whole
> > platoon for Bill Murray's antics, but I would bet that more effective
> drill
> > instructors don't rely on this centuries-old behavior modification
> approach.
> >
> > Group punishment impresses me as a holdover from the days when hazing,
> > caning, and public humiliation were considered acceptable school
> discipline
> > methods.
> >
> > Maybe this coach doesn't know any better; it's easy to fall back on
> > old-fashioned habits where discipline is concerned.  I think it would be
a
> > good idea to have a polite and candid talk with this person about their
> > approach to teaching teamwork and cooperation and sportsmanship.  Either
> you
> > or your daughter could have the conversation.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: margd@FLASH.NET [mailto:margd@FLASH.NET]
> > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:17 PM
> > To: ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: ALEXANDER
> >
>
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