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Re: affirming one key point

You changed the thread....... that's not fair.

a good friend of mine said that she believed each of us carried good and
evil -- it was the amount of each we must all realize ourselves.

what do you want to represent to the universe? how will your energy be
carried on? ... sounds like "may the force be with you" sort of thing
doesn't it?

so why isn't your wife online with us? I'd like to see the two of you
online together...


Affirmative may be justified
Take from one give to another
The goal is to be unified
Take my hand be my brother
The payment silenced the masses
Sanctified by oppression
Unity took a backseat
Sliding further in regression
One The only way is one
I feel angry I feel helpless
Want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone
Don't try and change my mind
Society blind by color
Why hold down one to raise another
Discrimination now on both sides
Seeds of hate blossom further
The world is heading for mutiny
When all we want is unity
We may rise and fall, but in the end
We meet our fate together
One The only way is one
I feel angry I feel helpless
Want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone
Don't try and change my mind

What It's Like

We've all seen a man at the liquor store beggin' for your change
The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked and full of mange
He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes
"Get a job you fucking slob," is all he replies
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues

Then you really might know what it's like... (4x)

Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love
He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll, I'm the man you've been
dreaming of."
But 3 months later he say he won't date her or return her calls
And she swear, "God damn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls."
And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walking through
the door
They call her a killer and they call her a sinner and they call her a whore
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose


I've seen a rich man beg
I've seen a good man sin
I've seen a tough man cry
I've seen a loser win
And a sad man grin
I heard an honest man lie
I've seen the good side of bad
And the downside of up
And everything between
I licked the silver spoon
Drank from the golden cup
And smoked the finest green
I stroked daddiest dimes at least a couple of times
before I broke their heart
You know where it ends, yo, it usually depends on where you start

I knew this kid named Max
Who used to get fat stacks out on the corner with drugs
He liked to hang out late
He liked to get shit faced and keep the pace with thugs
Until late one night there was a big gun fight and Max lost his head
He pulled out his chrome .45, talked some shit, and wound up dead
Now his wife and his kids are caught in the midst of all of this pain
You know it comes that way
At least that's what they say when you play the game
God forbid you ever had to wake up to hear the news
Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to lose

Then you really might know what it's like... (3x)
To have to lose...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Steinbok" <Victor.Steinbok@VERIZON.NET>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: affirming one key point

> At 5:15 PM -0500 2/22/02, kber wrote:
> >Michelle wrote:
> >
> > > I tell my students I am a Bigot...
> >
> >last year I taught a course in HS )hunior and senior electives) c alled
> >"Social Issues". The only thing the curriculum said was the the purpose
> >of the course was to teach children to understand how they came to their
> >views on controversial social issues and to ealrn to dialog with those
> >different tan thamselves.
> I am rather disturbed by some of the things being said on the
> original thread, but, considering the source of most of these
> remarks, it is not worth the bother. However, I do want to follow up
> on a couple of things, including Ken taking one of Michelle's
> statements and running with it.
> Only last month, my wife (a high-school history teacher) was
> finishing up a semester "honors" course and, despite the department
> chairman's objections, capped it off with "Project Hate". I don't
> know where she borrowed the idea for the project, but it is a good
> one (and some seeds of it are present in FHAO). The students track
> down and report on hate groups across different categories, where the
> nature of the "hate" and the "group" is not limited in any way. Some
> of the student discoveries are always surprising, but even this is
> beside the point. At the end of the project, several students came to
> the teacher and said that she was single-handedly responsible for at
> least a 75% reduction in hate-speech and hate-acts at the school.
> Now, I know that there was no formal study and that students do not
> fully understand some of the things that can or should be considered
> "hate", but the statement in itself is significant.
> At the same time, I've been listening to the BBC News for the past
> several weeks (I work late and the local NPR station switches to BBC
> after 10 pm). What I find interesting (although obvious) is that the
> rest of the rest of the world does not share the filiopiety of the
> Olympic Games in Utah. Worse yet, they are quite concerned about the
> continuing politization of the Olympic Games, which really started
> with Jimmy Carter and the decision to boycott the 1980 Games (yes,
> the 1936 and 1972 Games had a political component, as were some other
> issues, but, overall, the process had been apolitical prior to 1980).
> The blatant judging biases in LA, in Seoul and in Atlanta have been
> bothersome, but largely limited to one or two sports. Now, we find
> both the questionable judging AND the reporters' shilling for the
> North American athletes unbearable. It seems that the only ones who
> have publicly and officially expressed an appropriate reaction to the
> figure skating silliness were the Russian Olympic Federation (we can
> argue till the end of the world whether the Canadians skated at the
> gold medal level or not, but, the bottom line is that there was no
> reason to give it to them). Now, we find nearly EVERY decision
> subject to controversy because the Olympic officials showed
> repeatedly that they are spineless on all issues, but drug tests
> (which have repeatedly been shown to be flawed). This is typical of
> many venues and, particularly, of the current US-based culture of
> legalisms--if something is not explicitly prohibited, it must be
> permitted.
> The primary educational example of this is Zero-Tolerance rules in
> various contexts (and the related mandatory sentencing, three-strikes
> laws and other inflexible rules imposed on the criminal system). But
> ZT is not the only issue--clamoring for "character education",
> "measurable accountability", "rigorous standards" are all parts of
> this trend.
> Now, we find ourselves--on this list--having to decide who is the
> hater and who is the baiter of the hater. If someone finds himself in
> a position to recognize his own faults when it comes to biases and
> bigotry, it is a positive move. Blaming one group for the ills
> clearly evident in the other does not help in any way. It makes very
> little difference whether a mob that kills a person out of prejudice
> is being led by someone with a deep personal bias or of its own
> accord--either way, anyone involved in the killing is guilty of a
> hate crime and murder. To shield the mere executioners from the
> accusations of bigotry, while shifting the blame to the "leaders" who
> often cannot be identified is counterproductive in the effort to
> reduce or eliminate hate. If we don't recognize this, we will
> continue to be subjected to jingoistic propaganda--and the media will
> justify it by opinion polls that reveal that they are doing it
> because the public wants it. There comes a point, where the mob
> becomes the leader.
> VS-)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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