Re: The Board of Longitude

[George Cunningham <gkc@LOUISVILLE.EDU>]

Allen, Ken, Rick

I did a bunch of searches, including Google and came across just one
reference to Cremins.  It was in reference to another book that was praised
as being the best book on educational history since Cremins, but that was
all.  No hits at all on Amazon .com which usually has every book, even those
out of print, because they sell those as well through a sister service.

Just curious.  How can this be such an important book on educational
history?  It seems to have disappeared.

And Rick.  I read plenty of books I don't agree with.  I think Ravitch's
book was great.  I know a lot of people disagree with it so I am naturally
curious about why.

George K. Cunningham
University of Louisville

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List
> [mailto:ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU]On Behalf Of Allen Flanigan.
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:53 AM
> To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The Board of Longitude
>
>
> I found references to three volumes by Cremins (and numerous other
> citations) at the following cached page from Google:
>
> http://google.com/search?q=cache:BUKwmxNo8BwC:www.mrclapper.com/li
> fe/hisofed
> .html+cremins+kaestle&hl=en
>
> Since the original page no longer exists, I'll attach the entire
> list below.
>
> History of Education
>
>                                                    Tentative Reading List
>
>                                          Era One: Colonial Period
> and Early
> Republic
>
> Bailyn, Bernard, Education in the forming of American society; needs and
> opportunities for study.  (Chapel Hill, Published for the
> Institute of Early
> American
> History and Culture at Williamsburg, Va., by the University of North
> Carolina Press c1960)
>
> Cohen, Sheldon, A History of colonial education, 1607-1776, (NY: Wiley,
> 1974.)
>
> Cremin, Lawrence, American education, the colonial experience, 1607-1783,
> (NY: Harper, 1970)
>
> Lockridge, Kenneth, Literacy in colonial New England; an enquiry into the
> social context of literacy in the early modern West (NY: Norton, 1974)
>
> Sloan, Douglas, The Great awakening and American education, a documentary
> history, (NY: Columbia, 1973)
>
> Lee, Gordon, Crusade Against Ignorance: TJ on Education, (NY: Columbia
> Teacher's College, )
>
> Smith, Wilson, Theories of Education in Early America
> (Indianapolis: Bobbs-
> Merrill, 1973)
>
> Rudolph, Frederick,  Essays on education in the early Republic (Cambridge:
> Harvard, 1965)
>
> Kaestle, Carl F,  Joseph Lancaster and the monitorial school movement; a
> documentary history,   (New York, Teachers College Press, 1973)
>
>
>
>                                                Era Two:
> Antebellum Education
>
> Teacher's College Press:
>
> Mann:
>
> Barnard
>
> Sizer, Theodore, Age of the Academies
>
> Crane,
>
>
> Kaestle, Carl F, Pillars of the republic : common schools and American
> society, 1780-1860
>
> Kaestle, Carl F,  The evolution of an urban school system: New York City,
> 1750-1850 , (Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University Press, 1973)
>
> Welter, Rush, American writings on popular education; the
> nineteenth century
> (Indianapolis, Bobbs-Merrill, 1971)
>
> Katz, Michael, Irony of Early School Reform
>
>                         several chapters from Reconstructing American
> Education
>
> Hofstadter, Richard, Academic freedom in the age of the college.
> (New York,
> Columbia University Press [1961, c1955)
>
> response to Hofstadter:   Burke, Colin B., American collegiate
> populations :
> a test of the traditional view  (New York : New York University Press,
> 1982.)
>
> Woody, Thomas, History of women's education in the United States
> (New York,
> N.Y. and Lancaster, PA., the Science Press, 1929)
>
> Tyack and Hansot, Learning Together: History of Coeducation in American
> schools
>
>
>
>                                            Era Three:  African-American
> Experience
>
> Thomas L. Webber, Deep Like the Rivers: Education in the Slave Quarter
> Community, 1831-1865. Norton 1978.
>
> Chapter 4 from Litwack, Leon, North From Slavery
>
> Anderson, Jim, The education of Blacks in the South, 1860-1935
> (Chapel Hill
> : University of North Carolina Press, 1988.)
>
> Mann, Horace, Education of Negro and American Social Order
>
> Harlan, Louis, Separate and Unequal  public school campaigns and racism in
> the Southern Seaboard States, 1901-1915 (New York, Atheneum, 1968
> [c1958])
>
> Francis L. Broderick and August Meier, eds., Negro Protest Thought in the
> Twentieth Century.  (NY: Bobbs Merrill, 1965.)
>
> ????? Rudwick, Myron, (collection of documents) ???????
>
> Woodward, C. Van, Strange Career of Jim Crow,
>
> Vaughn, William Preston.  Schools for all; the Blacks & public
> education in
> the South, 1865-1877 ([Lexington] University Press of Kentucky [1974)
>
> Bullock, Henry, A history of Negro education in the South, from
> 1619 to the
> present.   (Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University Press, 1967.)
> _____
>
> Szasz, Margeret, Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783
> (Albuquerque : University of New Mexico Press, c1988.)
>
>
>
>
>                                              Era Four:  Civil War
> to 1920s:
> Ideas
>
> Books from Teacher's College Press:
>
> Eliot:
>
> Thorndike
>
> Hall
>
> Ross, D,   G. Stanley Hall: the psychologist as prophet. (Chicago,
> University of Chicago Press [1972)
>
> Dewey
>     reader edited by Dworkin
>     Democracy and Education
>     The Child in School
>
> McGuffey's Fifth Eclectic Reader
>
> Elson, Ruth, Guardians of tradition, American schoolbooks of the
> nineteenth
> century.  (Lincoln, University of Nebraska Press [1964])
>
> Cremins, Lawrence, The transformation of the school : progressivism in
> American education 1876-1957(New York : Vintage Books, 1964, c1961.
>
>                                          Era Five:  Civil War to
> the 1920s:
> Institutions
>
> Reese, William J.,  The origins of the American high school  (New Haven :
> Yale University Press, c1995)
>
> Labaree, David F. The making of an American high school : the credentials
> market and Central High of Philadelphia, 1838-1939  (New Haven : Yale
> University Press, c1988)
>
> Harvey Kantor and David B. Tyack  Work, youth, and schooling : historical
> perspectives on vocationalism in American education /  (Stanford, Calif. :
> Stanford
> University Press, 1982.)
>
> Lazerson and Grub, American Education and Vocationalism: A Documentary
> History
>
> Katznelson, Ira, Schooling for all : class, race, and the decline of the
> democratic ideal  (New York : Basic Books, c1985)
>
> Lazerson, Marvin,
>
> Lazerson, Marvin.   Origins of the urban school; public education in
> Massachusetts, 1870-1915 (Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University
> Press, 1971.)
>
>
> Tyack, David, Managers of virtue : public school leadership in America,
> 1820-1980  (New York : Basic Books, c1982)
>
> Fass, Paula, Outside in : minorities and the transformation of American
> education  (New York : Oxford University Press, 1989.)
>
> Lynd, Robert and Helen, Middletown, Chapters on Education
>
> Veysey, Laurence, The emergence of the American university ( Chicago :
> University of Chicago Press, 1970,c1965.)
>
> 2nd Volume of Hofstadter and Smith
>
> Hoffman, Nancy,  Woman's "true" profession : voices from the history of
> teaching (New York : McGraw-Hill, c1981.)
>
>
>
>                                                   Era Six: 1920s
> to Present
>
> Tyack, David, Managers of virtue : public school leadership in America,
> 1820-1980  (New York : Basic Books, c1982)
>
> Cremin, Third Volume
>
> Callahan, Raymond Eugene,  Education and the cult of efficiency : study of
> the social forces that have shaped the administration of the
> public schools
> ( Chicago
> ; London : University of Chicago Press, 1962.)
>
> Zilversmit, Arthur, Changing schools : progressive education theory and
> practice, 1930-1960  (Chicago, IL : University of Chicago Press, 1993.)
>
> Tyack and Hansot, Learning Together: History of Coeducation in American
> schools
>
> Woody, Thomas, History of Women's Education  (New York : Octagon Books,
> 1966, c1929 (1980 printing))
>
> --
>
> Lukas, J. Anthony, Common ground : a turbulent decade in the
> lives of three
> American families ( New York : Vintage Books, 1986, c1985.)
>
> Rubin, Lillian ,   Busing and backlash; white against white in a
> California
> school district [by] Lillian B. Rubin.  (Berkeley, University of
> California
> Press [1972])
>
> Smith, Robert Collins,  They closed their schools; Prince Edward County,
> Virginia, 1951-1964 (0Chapel Hill, University of North Carolina Press
> [1965])
>
> Formisano,Ronald, Boston against busing : race, class, and
> ethnicity in the
> 1960s and 1970s    (Chapel Hill : University of North Carolina Press,
> c1991.)
>
> Church, Robert, Last two chapters of textbook recommended
>
> Kantor chapter from The Underclass Debate
>
> Fellman, David, The Supreme Court and education.  (New York, Teachers
> College Press, [c1969])
>
> Wollenberg,  Charles , All deliberate speed : segregation and exclusion in
> California schools, 1855-1975 ( Berkeley : University of California Press,
> c1976.)
>
> Sanders, James The education of an urban minority : Catholics in Chicago,
> 1833-1965   (New York : Oxford University Press, 1977.)
>
> Wilkinson, J. Harvie, From Brown to Bakke : the Supreme Court and school
> integration, 1954-1978 (New York : Oxford University Press, 1979.)
>
>
>
>                                                    Putting it all together
>
> Tyack, Tinkering Towards Utopia
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kber@EARTHLINK.NET [mailto:kber@EARTHLINK.NET]
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:49 AM
> To: ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The Board of Longitude
>
>
> George
>
> Cremins wrote a whole series of books, most of which are probably not
> currently in print.  There is an entire series entitled "American
> Education"
> which goes through the history time period by time period.  If memory
> serves, there are about 5 books in this series.  I'm at school, so I can't
> check my library shelves.  He also wrote a book called simply "Pulibc
> Education", whihc has got to be from the 1970's or so.  Perhpas his best
> known work is dervied from a series of lectures he gave at the
> Harvard Grad.
> School of Education.   The title of that is "Popular Education and its
> Discontents."
>
> He covers far more history than does Ravitch.  And I unfortuntely
> think that
> the work you cite by her starts with a premise that it seeks to rpove,
> rather than to examine all of the evidence that is available.
>
> You might find that a good school of education libary will have all or at
> least some of the Cremins books.  Quite frankly, anyone interested in
> education history should start with Cremins, and not insist of reinventing
> the whell - roudn works fine.  You don't ahve to agree with him -
> I disagee
> with a couple of his interpretations - but I don't think one can seriously
> talk about educational history without knowing his work.
>
> Ken Bernstein
> -----Original Message-----
> From:         George Cunningham <gkc@LOUISVILLE.EDU>
> Date:         Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:36:55 -0500
> To:           ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> Subject:      Re: The Board of Longitude
>
>
> > Ken,
> >
> > What is the title of Lawrence Cremins book?
> >
> > George K. Cunningham
> > University of Louisville
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List
> > > [mailto:ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU]On Behalf Of Kenneth Bernstein
> > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:27 AM
> > > To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> > > Subject: Re: The Board of Longitude
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, I think Ravitch's book has some serious flaws, and view
> > > the owrk of Lawrence Cremins as a far more accurate
> > > representation of U.S. educational history.
> > >
> >
> >
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