"Clearly not passig FACT won't get 1000 on SAT" But 70th percentile IS a 1000 SAT!

["Arthur Hu" <arthurhu@comcast.net>]

Any experts on equating the SAT to IQ care to confirm that
the fail line on the FCAT, (or WASL) or the 70th percentile
is about equal to a 1000 SAT? Studies also show that 25% of
Ready Start students in WA do not pass WASL, these are
students who are deemed ready to take college level courses.
10% of gifted (top 5% on norm reference tests) students in
Ohio do not pass their proficiency test either.

Could somebody in Florida put in a formal request to equate
the FCAT pass line to an SAT score to back up their statement?

The article says diplomas were denied to 12,500 students, but
only 12,072 students were tested in the 12th grad, so this
would correspond to denying diplomas to almost everybody. The
pass rates on eithe test are 31 and 42 percent, which would
put passing both tests at well below 30%.

Is there anybody on these lists who actually believes the FCAT
requirement is valid??

Are there any studies out there which correlate state proficiency
tests to SAT scores? Anybody care to do a small scale survey of
college students or high school students comparing whether they
passed or not with admission to university and / or SAT score? I've
often stated that passing WASL is tantamount to being qualified
for a non-affirmative action competitive admission to U Wash or
Wash State U.

It would only take 10-15 data points to get a rough idea of
equivalence.

g:\doc\web\2004\02\fcatpass.txt
http://www.firn.edu/doe/sas/fcat/pdf/grade12pass03.pdf
z75\clipim\2004\02\28\grade12pass03.pdf

FCAT 12th grade pass rates 2003
            Reading    Scale   Pct       Math      Scale    Pct
            Tested     Score   Passed    Tested    Score    Passed
Statewide   15065      263     31        12072     283      42
Desoto         16      251     19           17     258       6
Hardee         19      287     47           17     305      71
Clay          222      290     59          198     295      56

Statewide, only 30-40% of students	 pass either test, so fewer than 30%
will passboth tests. Even in the best districts, no more than 60% pass.
Only the top 50-60% of students take the SAT, so the median FCAT flunk
should be equal to an average SAT score.


Any data on what a passing score on the FCAT is equivalent to?

''Clearly the students that are not passing the FCAT are not likely to
score 1200 or even 1000 on the SAT,'' said Education Commissioner Jim Horne.

FACT - the flunk line on the FCAT appears to correspond to the median
SAT taking population, or the 70th percentile.

Passing WA's WASL puts you in the top 20%, or good enough to send
you to Washington State or University of Washington. If FCAT is a typica
test which fails over 50% of students, then you could fail FCAT and still
score a 1000 (average) on the SAT.

Quick - who can tell me what a failing score is on the SAT, the level
at which a student is deemed unqualified for any college? (hint, trick
question, it's a rank order, not  criterion based test)

Which is superior, or at least less harmful, a criterion referenced
or norm referenced test?


-----Original Message-----
From: arn-l-owner@interversity.org
[mailto:arn-l-owner@interversity.org]On Behalf Of Bob Schaeffer
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:11 AM
To: ARN Main List; ARN State; FCAR
Subject: [arn-l] Private School Circumvents State Graduation Test
Requirement


             SCHOOL PROVIDES FCAT LOOPHOLE
DOZENS OF COUNTY STUDENTS ARE TRANSFERRING THEIR
HIGH SCHOOL CREDITS TO AN OUT-OF-STATE PRIVATE SCHOOL,
USING A LOOPHOLE THAT LETS THEM EARN A DIPLOMA
WITHOUT PASS THE STATE'S GRADUATION TEST
     Miami Herald -- February 29, 2004
            by Matthew I. Pinzur


Two years after arriving from Port-au-Prince, Edison High student
Stephania Fourron had learned enough English to pass the math portion of
the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, but failed the reading exam
three times.

She could not receive a diploma, could not start college, could not
study nursing -- until a community activist offered her a novel solution
from 1,600 miles away.

For a $255 fee, a private school designed for home-schooled students in
Lewiston, Maine, offered to accept her course credits from Edison and
issue a diploma -- even though she has never attended classes there.
Within weeks, Fourron was able to begin classes at Miami Dade College.

For her and at least 76 other Miami students, North Atlantic Regional
High School has been a loophole to a controversial state law that denied
diplomas last year to 12,500 students statewide, including 5,000 in
Miami-Dade, who failed the FCAT.

The loophole is drawing ire from the state's education chief -- who
acknowledges he is probably powerless to close it -- and word could
spread quickly in the high-poverty areas where FCAT failure is epidemic,
such as Fourron's Little Haiti neighborhood.

''I told everybody, everyone,'' Fourron said. 'They say, `I can't pass
the FCAT,' and I say don't worry about that.''

Some of her friends such as Suze Barthelemy are also using their North
Atlantic Regional diplomas at Miami Dade College.

''Once you don't have a high school diploma, you can't go to college;
you can't reach your dreams,'' said Barthelemy, 19. ``All you can do is
work, work, work.''

              LIKE STANDARD DIPLOMA

At Miami Dade College, a diploma from North Atlantic Regional is treated
the same as a Florida diploma, said registrar Steve Kelly.

He said North Atlantic Regional's accreditation from the National
Private Schools Association likely landed it on the list of approved
schools.

''It's listed as a legitimate high school,'' he said. ``There would be
no questions asked at admissions.''

But a spokesman for the Maine Department of Education said the high
school may be misleading students when it claims on its Internet site to
''have the authority and privilege to grant high school diplomas in the
State of Maine'' and provide ``a real high school diploma -- NOT a GED,
NOT a certificate of completion.''

''The state of Maine does not recognize their grades, credits,
transcripts or diplomas,'' said spokesman Edwin ''Buzz'' Kastuck. ``If
you're home-schooling your children, you can issue them a diploma from
your kitchen table -- we look at it the same way.''

A decades-old court ruling forced Maine to acknowledge religious and
independent schools that would not follow state-approved curricula or
meet other standards, Kastuck said. The state maintains a list of those
schools' students solely to ensure they are not classified as truants.

''It is clearly in no way equivalent to a public school diploma from the
state of Maine,'' he said.

The school's husband-and-wife administrators, Steve and Carol Moitozo,
said the state education department is trying to discredit a legitimate
program because public-school funding drops when students attend private
or home schools.

                  STUDENTS SCREENED

North Atlantic Regional High, Steve Moitozo said, screens students'
accomplishments -- course work, standardized test scores, internship
experiences and other parts of an educational portfolio -- and converts
them into measurable credits. When a student has met Maine's graduation
requirements -- a set number of classes in subjects such as math and
English -- they receive a diploma.

Maine has no exit exam like the FCAT.

''The students in Florida earned those credits,'' Moitozo said. ``They
can take them and cash them in anywhere they like.''

The North Atlantic Regional diplomas are recognized at state
universities such as Florida International, but do not carry the same
weight as a standard diploma, said Carmen Brown, FIU's admissions director.

Because the high school is not accredited by a state government or a
specific confederation of private-school umbrella groups, Brown said
students from the Maine school would need to have significantly higher
grades and test scores.

Each university and college sets its own standards, but Brown said the
others probably have similar expectations to those FIU sets for students
from schools like North Atlantic Regional -- roughly a 3.5 grade point
average and 1200 SAT score, as opposed to the 3.0 GPA and 1060 score
expected for others.

''Clearly the students that are not passing the FCAT are not likely to
score 1200 or even 1000 on the SAT,'' said Education Commissioner Jim Horne.

North Atlantic Regional has about 400 students in Maine, Moitozo said,
most of whom attend occasional classes taught by certified teachers and
designed to prepare parents to handle everything from Macbeth to mitosis.

''Our job as a high school is not to teach children; our job as a high
school is to teach parents to teach their children,'' he said. ``All we
need to do is set the sails and show them how to navigate, because when
the parents get that, they soar.''

            OUT OF STATE

But most of the schools' students never come to Lewiston.

More than 80 percent of North Atlantic's students live outside Maine,
Moitozo said. The largest concentration is a group of 400 in Florida,
enough to prompt the school to open an administrative office in Palm Bay
and host an annual graduation ceremony in Orlando.

''We encourage them to try [the FCAT], but as a last resort they can use
this route,'' said Jean-Rene Foureau, director of the Haitian Refugee
Center and a teacher at Edison who helped connect the students with the
Moitozos' school.

He said he had a lawyer review the arrangement and the school's
accreditation papers from the National Private Schools Association.

He also negotiated the price down from the school's typical $360 fee.

''Somebody's trying to turn a buck on families who probably don't know
any better,'' Horne said. ``It just smells fishy.''

A spokeswoman for Gov. Jeb Bush, whose A+ Education plan included the
FCAT graduation requirement, said the state provides ample opportunities
for students to earn diplomas, even after the senior year.

''We have alternatives that can assist students that have language
barriers -- immersion classes, special reading classes,'' said press
secretary Alia Faraj.

Despite Bush's and Horne's opposition, the practice is likely to grow,
at least for now, as Foureau and his first group of graduates spread the
word.

''This isn't anything we're going to take out advertising to tell people
about,'' Moitozo said, ``although that might be a good idea.''

Horne said Miami Dade College and other community colleges should
carefully consider which diplomas they accept.

''To simply waive the rules through a back-door channel is not serving
the students well,'' Horne said.

``It's going to create a false sense of accomplishment.''