Re: math equality in genders

[gbracey1@verizon.net]

 I hope by now that Bob has seen my post and sees that the higher 
percentage of women taking the exam is NOT the reason for lower scores. 
This idea is nonsense.

Jerry


On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at  7:17 PM, Robert Schaeffer wrote:

> As someone who has served as an expert for plaintiffs in several legal 
> challenges to SAT gender discrimination, I am familiar with Janet 
> Hyde's research. The higher precentage of females taking the exam is, 
> indeed, one reason that their average SAT scores are lower. But 
> different test-taking patterns do not explain the entire gender gap, 
> nor even the majority of it.

According to research by Hyde, Marcia Linn and others, several more 
important factors are at work, particularly the nature of the SAT 
itself. A fast-paced multiple-choice testing "game" with a premium on 
strategic guessing favors a style more frequently associated with males 
in our culture.

The SAT could be a gender-fair assessment if those were the skills 
needed for success in college (or in life). In academia and the work 
world, however, the ability to look for nuances, to thoughtfully assess 
all facets of a problem and to admit "I don't know"when that the most 
appropriate response come into play.

It is not surprising then that the SAT continues to underpredict first 
year college grades for females and overpredict for males, according to 
the test-makers themselves.That is the classic definition of assessment 
bias.


-----Original Message-----
> From: gbracey1@verizon.net <mailto:gbracey1@verizon.net>   
> <mailto:gbracey1@verizon.net> Sent: Jul 24, 2008 5:56 PM
> To: arn-l@interversity.org <mailto:arn-l@interversity.org>   
> <mailto:arn-l@interversity.org> Cc: arn-l@interversity.org, 
> <mailto:arn-l@interversity.org>   <mailto:arn-l@interversity.org> 
>  ca-resisters@interversity.org <mailto:ca-resisters@interversity.org> 
>   <mailto:ca-resisters@interversity.org> Subject: Re: [arn-l] math 
> equality in genders
>
>
>   Joe, where did this appear?
>
> This is a fascinating area and I wish I had more time to explore it.  
> I can say without doubt, Janet Hyde's hypothesis about girls' SAT 
> being lower because there are more girls in college is WRONG.  When 
> the College Board released "On Further Examination" in 1977, they 
> found that women socred 55 points lower than men in 1960 and 52 points 
> lower in 1977.  The percentage of women taking the test was 42.7 in 
> 1960, 47.5 in 1977.
>
> After that, it gets more complicated and more fascinating.  In 
> international comparisons, girls consistently outscore boys in reading 
> and usually by sizeable amounts.  In TIMSS 8th grad math, only in 14 
> of 45 countries do boys outscore girls.  Most of the differences 
> within countries are very, very, small.  And the three largest are 
> Tunisia, 24 points favoring boys, Jordan 27 points and Bahrain 33 
> points, both favoring girls.  I can't help but think this has 
> something to do with sampling, although none of the countries are 
> cited by TIMSS as not meeting samplying requirements or testing the 
> appropriate population.
>
> In TIMSS 8th grade science, only 10 of 45 countries have scores 
> favoring girls.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at  4:42 PM, monicalucido@comcast.net 
> <mailto:monicalucido@comcast.net>   <mailto:monicalucido@comcast.net> 
>  wrote:
>
> > Ok, here's another one. I really like the line that states we need to 
> > have tests with "more critical thinking questions". These people just 
> > might have their heads too far up their rears. The real world 
> > requires REAL problem solving. Making a longer, harder test is not 
> > going to solve whatever "competitive" issues there may be (and that's 
> > already been debated hotly today and yesterday). Once again, any 
> > opinions on the validity of this study?
>
> Math study finds girls are just as good as boys
> 2 hours ago
> 35 Recommendations
> WASHINGTON � Sixteen years after Barbie dolls declared, "Math class is 
> tough!" girls are proving that when it comes to math they are just as 
> tough as boys. In the largest study of its kind, girls measured up to 
> boys in every grade, from second through 11th. The research was 
> released Thursday in the journal Science.
>
> Parents and teachers persist in thinking boys are simply better at 
> math, said Janet Hyde, the University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher 
> who led the study. And girls who grow up believing it wind up avoiding 
> harder math classes.
>
> "It keeps girls and women out of a lot of careers, particularly 
> high-prestige, lucrative careers in science and technology," Hyde 
> said.
>
> That's changing, though slowly.
>
> Women are now earning 48 percent of undergraduate college degrees in 
> math; they still lag far behind in physics and engineering.
>
> But in primary and secondary school, girls have caught up, with 
> researchers attributing that advance to increasing numbers of girls 
> taking advanced math classes such as calculus.
>
> Hyde and her colleagues looked at annual math tests required by the No 
> Child Left Behind education law in 2002. Ten states provided enough 
> statistical information to review test scores by gender, allowing 
> researchers to compare the performances of more than 7 million 
> children.
>
> The researchers found no difference in the scores of boys versus girls 
> � not even in high school. Studies 20 years ago showed girls and boys 
> did equally well on math in elementary school, but girls fell behind 
> in high school.
>
> "Girls have now achieved gender parity in performance on standardized 
> math tests," Hyde said.
>
> The stereotype that boys are better at math has been fueled, at least 
> in part, by suggestions of biological differences in the way little 
> boys and little girls learn. This idea is hotly disputed; Lawrence 
> Summers, then the president of Harvard, was castigated in 2005 when he 
> questioned the "intrinsic aptitude" of women for top-level math and 
> science.
>
> Joy Lee, a rising senior at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science 
> and Technology in Alexandria, Va., says she always felt confident 
> about math, but remembers how it felt to walk into a science class 
> full of boys. "Maybe I was a little bit apprehensive about being the 
> only girl, but that didn't last for very long," said Lee, president of 
> a school club that tries to get young girls interested in science and 
> technology, along with engineering and math.
>
> "I definitely do encourage other girls to pursue those interests and 
> to not be scared to take those courses just because there are not very 
> many girls or because they think they're not good enough to do it," 
> Lee said.
>
> Still, while there are fewer women in science and technology, there 
> are more women in college overall. To Hyde and her colleagues, that 
> helps explain why girls consistently score lower on average on the 
> SAT: More of them take the test, which is needed to get into college. 
> The highest-performing students of both genders take the test, but 
> more girls lower on the achievement scale take it, skewing the 
> average.
>
> For the class of 2007, the latest figures available, boys scored an 
> average of 533 on the math section of the SAT, compared with 499 for 
> girls.
>
> On the ACT, another test on which girls lag slightly, the gender gap 
> disappeared in Colorado and Illinois once state officials required all 
> students to take the test.
>
> As Hyde and her colleagues looked across the data for states' testing, 
> they found something they didn't expect: In most states they reviewed, 
> and at most grade levels, there weren't any questions that involved 
> complex problem-solving, an ability needed to succeed in high levels 
> of science and math. If tests don't assess these reasoning skills, 
> they may not be taught, putting American students at a disadvantage to 
> students in other countries with more challenging tests, the 
> researchers said.
>
> That might be a glaring omission, said Stephen Camarata, a Vanderbilt 
> University professor who has researched the issue but was not involved 
> in the study.
>
> "We need to know that, if our measures aren't capturing some aspect of 
> math that's important," Camarata said. "Then we can decide whether 
> there's an actual male or female advantage."
>
> A panel of experts convened by the Education Department recommended 
> that state tests be updated to emphasize critical thinking.
>
> While some states already have fairly rigorous tests, "we can do a 
> better job," said Kerri Briggs, the department's assistant secretary 
> for elementary and secondary education.
>
> "If we're going to be globally competitive, we need students who are 
> able to do higher-level math skills," she said.
>
> Back in 1992, Barbie stopped saying math was hard after Mattel 
> received complaints from, among others, the American Association of 
> University Women.
>
> So far, while her current career choices include baby doctor and 
> veterinarian � and Dallas Cowboys cheerleader, too � Barbie has not 
> branched out into technology or engineering.
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Bob Schaeffer
Public Education Director
FairTest: National Center for Fair & Open Testing
ph-  (239) 395-6773   fax- (239) 395-6779
cell- (239) 699-0468
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