Re: [arn-l Digest] Vol. 3 No. 428 Messages: 4

[monicalucido@comcast.net]

Art,

You live in fantasy land. When you make the assumptions about how the "achievement gap" is measured, you really show your ignorance of how teachers determine student learning and mastery. While the concept of accountability is neither good nor bad, the way one wields it during the form of an argument or the creation of a law can be damaging.  Of course I believe control should be local and BY THE PUBLIC. Assessments should also be valid and very specific. The bottom line is this---IN THE CLASSROOM---how will the assessment affect teacher planning for student learning such that one KNOWS HOW A CHILD CAME TO THEIR ANSWER? Without this information, your precious standardized test scores mean nothing. Strands of results and disaggregated information give you a VERY general picture. It is not specific enough. When going into a doctor's office with a fever and he just says, "Well, you're sick. M'kay, go get better", does not give you information about what must be done.  The data from th
ese exams are not clear on the exact areas that needs focus, not to mention the fact that they are created for statictical reliability, not curricular validity. They are a means by which private companies get to experiment their unproven wares on the masses for a profit, because the law says so. It's like, "Hmm, well, here you go try this intervention. Now, we think this will work for you. Try it out for a couple 'a years, and if it doesn't work, you can kick down another couple million and will give you this other product over here."  There is NO accountability for those folks, and the number of scandals including private companies programs is sky rocketing.

     Especially in poor schools where children need to LONGITUDINALLY develop their reading skill, they are forced into panic mode because they need to raise their test scores QUICKLY or be punished by the law. Therefore, kids are put into situations where they are trying to beat the test itself instead of truly showing their learning. They may guess and be right, and that may raise their school scores, but does it show learning or dishonesty? No one will know the truth.  This is the LAW's fault, not teachers. While you claim that every child must be catered to individually to eliminate any disservice to any particular group, the NCLB law does just the opposite. The information is intended to punish based on ineffective and invalid information. The latest time magazine gave the NCLB law an "A" for showing how many "bad" schools there were. HOORAY! The backers of the law got their wish. To show as many public schools as failing as possible with no remedy in sight. Close' em, right? 
OR allow them to escape the PAIN of the law by becoming a charter (record numbers of those arising, too) school and have the rules changed so the ways of teaching children appropriately can be put back in place. Except that many are partially or totally funded by private corporations. See a connection here, Art? It's not a conspiracy, it's actually real.

I also find it interesting that you claim that some "failing" schools are probably using "unmeritorious curriculum". Now, how in the world do you know that? That statement is PURE propaganda called overgeneralization. There is no way that you can paint all those schools with the same brush without doing a school by school by classroom by classroom check to see if what you were saying is true. The NCLB law does the same. It is LAZY. Politicians don't want to be creative enough to come up with a law that has multiple measures, that gets right into the classroom, into the students mind and reasoning for their answers, and that allows a PROFESSIONAL to determine mastery. 

I find that most of your responses are intended to argue for argument's sake. I find no passion in your letters for children or their health and development as citizens. What I do find is manipulation of facts and generalized statements to benefit YOUR EGO. You are right about one thing. I AM a zealot----for protecting kids from you.

Joe Lucido
Educators and Parents Against Test Abuse
Educator Roundtable


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: arn-l-owner@interversity.org
> ARN-L Daily Digest 
> Volume 3 : Issue 428 : "text" Format
> 
> Messages in this Issue:
>   200706/1  : Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
>  National Poll
>     aburke5054
>   200706/2  : Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind --
>  New National Poll
>     Michael Peterson
>   200706/4  : Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
>  National Poll
>     aburke5054
>   200706/3  : More $ on prisons than higher ed - CA
>     Monty Neill
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:46:08 -0400
> From: aburke5054@aol.com
> To: arn-l@interversity.org
> Subject: Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
>  National Poll
> Message-ID: <8C97272B930EE1E-1620-3DA6@webmail-de12.sysops.aol.com>
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Schaeffer <bobschaeffer@earthlink.net>
> To: ARN Main List <arn-l@interversity.org>; arn2-strategy 
> <arn2-strategy@yahoogroups.com>; rethinkaccountdc@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:38 am
> Subject: [arn-l] Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New 
> National Poll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <>?
> 
> MAJORITY WOULD LIKE "NO CHILD" LAW LEFT BEHIND?
> 
> ? Scripps Howard News Service --  May 30, 2007?
> 
> by Thomas Hargrove and Guido H. Stempel III?
> ?
> 
> 
> ...Participants in the poll were told that No Child Left Behind "requires 
> states to test elementary students to determine if schools do a good job 
> teaching. Critics say the law forces teachers to teach to a particular 
> test. From everything you've heard, do you think the No Child Left 
> Behind Act has been good for public schools or not good?"?
> ?
> 
> Only about a third said they think the law has had a positive influence 
> on public education while slightly less than half said it has had a 
> negative impact and a fifth were undecided. ...
> ?
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I wonder if people would have a more favorable opinion of NCLB if they were told 
> that it obligates states to improve their schools, particularly schools that 
> serve large numbers of poor children, minority children, children with 
> disabilities, and children learning English?? Does anyone outside of the 
> spinmeisters at FairTest really think that most Americans want to leave those 
> children behind or that they would not embrace the notion that states should 
> establish reasonable learning goals, administer tests to measure children's 
> progress towards those goals, and step in to do something in schools where lots 
> of children are falling behind?
> 
> Art
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL 
> at AOL.com.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:43 -0400
> From: Michael Peterson <jmpeterson@twmi.rr.com>
> To: <arn-l@interversity.org>
> Subject: Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind --
>  New National Poll
> Message-ID: <C285ACDB.1A8A8%jmpeterson@twmi.rr.com>
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Schaeffer <bobschaeffer@earthlink.net>
> > To: ARN Main List <arn-l@interversity.org>; arn2-strategy
> > <arn2-strategy@yahoogroups.com>; rethinkaccountdc@yahoogroups.com
> > I break my self-established rule in not responding to you Art.
> > 
> > Quite to the point of the survey, virtually anyone with concrete experience in
> > schools that serve high concentration of low income children and / or children
> > of color know that this law is devastating to them. Frankly, most high income
> > schools could take off for a couple of years and still have kids pass these
> > tests. This means that they really don¹t have to change much and can give kids
> > rich experiences. On the other hand, people in schools serving high
> > concentrations of children at risk are terrified of the repercussions. While
> > we know the curriculum for these children has for a long time, been focussed
> > on low level skills, memorizing facts rather than thinking, that is even more
> > so now. In other words, while NCLB claims to be interested in improving
> > schools for these children, the fact is that it does exactly the opposite.
> > 
> > Can¹t wait for the response.
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > 
> >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > I wonder if people would have a more favorable opinion of NCLB if they were
> > told that it obligates states to improve their schools, particularly schools
> > that serve large numbers of poor children, minority children, children with
> > disabilities, and children learning English?? Does anyone outside of the
> > spinmeisters at FairTest really think that most Americans want to leave those
> > children behind or that they would not embrace the notion that states should
> > establish reasonable learning goals, administer tests to measure children's
> > progress towards those goals, and step in to do something in schools where
> > lots of children are falling behind?
> > 
> > Art
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:34:48 -0400
> From: aburke5054@aol.com
> To: arn-l@interversity.org
> Subject: Re: Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
>  National Poll
> Message-ID: <8C972C4F5AD24E0-1090-4FEC@webmail-de13.sysops.aol.com>
> 
> 
> The gap in achievement is precisely why we have NCLB and why we need it, at 
> least in its wider outline.  The fact that "at-risk" children have too often 
> been exposed to unmeritorious curriculum is precisely the reason that so many 
> advocates for these children support NCLB. Trying to pin all the dysfunctional 
> and inappropriate things schools do on NCLB may play well with anti-NCLB 
> zealots, but the truth is that doing so is a colossal disservice to children and 
> to parents and to public education. 
> 
> Art
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Peterson <jmpeterson@twmi.rr.com>
> To: arn-l@interversity.org
> Sent: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 8:00 am
> Subject: Re: [arn-l] Mos  U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New 
> National Poll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Schaeffer <bobschaeffer@earthlink.net>
> > To: ARN Main List <arn-l@interversity.org>; arn2-strategy
> > <arn2-strategy@yahoogroups.com>; rethinkaccountdc@yahoogroups.com
> > I break my self-established rule in not responding to you Art.
> > 
> > Quite to the point of the survey, virtually anyone with concrete experience in
> > schools that serve high concentration of low income children and / or children
> > of color know that this law is devastating to them. Frankly, most high income
> > schools could take off for a couple of years and still have kids pass these
> > tests. This means that they really don¹t have to change much and can give 
> kids
> > rich experiences. On the other hand, people in schools serving high
> > concentrations of children at risk are terrified of the repercussions. While
> > we know the curriculum for these children has for a long time, been focussed
> > on low level skills, memorizing facts rather than thinking, that is even more
> > so now. In other words, while NCLB claims to be interested in improving
> > schools for these children, the fact is that it does exactly the opposite.
> > 
> > Can¹t wait for the response.
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > 
> >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > I wonder if people would have a more favorable opinion of NCLB if they were
> > told that it obligates states to improve their schools, particularly schools
> > that serve large numbers of poor children, minority children, children with
> > disabilities, and children learning English?? Does anyone outside of the
> > spinmeisters at FairTest really think that most Americans want to leave those
> > children behind or that they would not embrace the notion that states should
> > establish reasonable learning goals, administer tests to measure children's
> > progress towards those goals, and step in to do something in schools where
> > lots of children are falling behind?
> > 
> > Art
> >  
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL 
> at AOL.com.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:11:37 -0400
> From: "Monty Neill" <monty@fairtest.org>
> To: "RScriticalteach" <RScriticalteach@lists.execpc.com>,
> 	<ndsgroup@yahoogroups.com>, "ARN-L" <arn-l@interversity.org>,
> 	"arn2-strategy" <arn2-strategy@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: More $ on prisons than higher ed - CA
> Message-ID: <04f701c7a499$d30c2ad0$280a010a@Monty>
> 
> From PEN newsblast 
> 
> PRISON VS. EDUCATION SPENDING REVEALS CALIFORNIA'S PRIORITIES
> It has been said that a government's budget isn't only a statement of 
> priorities, but also a reflection of a society's values. California's proposed 
> budget reveals skewed priorities and hollow values. For the first time, and 
> unique among large states, California will soon spend more on its prisons than 
> on its public universities. It has been projected that over the next five years, 
> the state's budget for locking up people will rise by nine percent annually, 
> compared with its spending on higher education, which will rise only by five 
> percent. By the 2012-2013 fiscal year, writes Maya Harris in the San Francisco 
> Chronicle, $15.4 billion will be spent on incarcerating Californians, as 
> compared with $15.3 billion spent on educating the state's citizens. More prison 
> spending will mean better pay for the highest paid, most politically influential 
> prison personnel in the nation, as well as more prisons, but no one is certain 
> it will result in a better corrections system. However, th
>  ere's no uncertainty about the benefits that flow from investing in education. 
> Nothing predicts future success better than a good education, and nothing 
> guarantees failure more than the lack of one. The correlation between the lack 
> of educational opportunities and imprisonment could not be more direct. We not 
> only continue to feed the prison system at the expense of funding education, 
> we've also blurred the lines separating the educational and criminal justice 
> systems, creating a school-to-prison pipeline with a predictable and steady 
> flow. Police have become an increasing presence in our public elementary, middle 
> and high schools. Schools are spending millions of dollars to hire their own 
> police forces or contracting with local authorities. Kids are routinely searched 
> before being allowed into the building, under surveillance by video cameras in 
> hallways and subjected to random searches of their backpacks and lockers.
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/29/EDGGTP3F291.DTL
> Monty Neill, Ed.D.
> Co-Executive Director
> FairTest
> 342 Broadway
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> 617-864-4810    fax 617-497-2224
> monty@fairtest.org
> http://www.fairtest.org
> Donate: https://secure.entango.com/servlet/donate/MnrXjT8MQqk
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of [arn-l Digest] Vol. 3 No. 428 Messages: 4
> **********