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Re: Mos U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New National Poll
I rest my case. Quite evasive Art.
BTW, I see lots of shades of gray in the world, not all black and white. I
have never doubted your sincerity in what you believe, just firmly disagree
with you.
To say that the Educator Roundtable and other groups that oppose NCLB are in
the company of those who opposed Brown is terribly wrong, irresponsible, and
way over the top. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Tauna
----- Original Message -----
From: <aburke5054@aol.com>
To: <arn-l@interversity.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Mos U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
National Poll
I realize at the outset that I am not going to get very far discussing
"details and realities" with someone who sees the world as divided into
angels and devils, so I am just going to say what I think and believe.
I think that contrary to what you say, the more people realize that NCLB
requires states to improve schools until all their children are
proficient, the more they will support it, despite critics' continuing?
ontological problems with the notion of "all children proficient."? In
addition, I think you assess the impact of NCLB on the schools completely
wrong - I don't believe it's destructive at all and in fact I believe what
better basis to argue for upgrading programs in schools than accepting
responsibility for helping all children succeed?? Finally, there are real
problems with NCLB, some of them self-inflicted by states and schools, but
I think that Brent Staples had it exactly right when he said that NCLB is
the
most important civil rights battle since Brown - that's why I support it
and that's why groups like
La Raza and many other civil rights groups support it in its wider
outline.? I think that the Educator Roundtable and other groups that
oppose NCLB on specious grounds are doing a disservice to children,
parents, and public education similar to the disservice done by groups who
were obstinately opposed to Brown.? That's bad company to be in.
Art
itself----Original Message-----
From: Tauna Rogers <taunar@plateautel.net>
To: arn-l@interversity.org
Sent: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Mos U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind --
New National Poll
Art,?
?
?
I've been reading your posts defending NCLB for quite some time now.
Invariably, you spin and dodge with appealing rhetoric, as do the law's
crafty engineers, rather than confronting the law's appalling realities,
absurdities and hypocrisies. The law portrays itself as on the side of the
angels. It is not and the devil is found in the details and in who it is
actually benefiting from the law and who it is that is being most harmed
by
the law..those disadvantaged kids. And when those details become more
widely
known and understood by the public, I believe you will find that the
present
"nearly two-thirds" of Americans who want the law re-written or outright
abolished will grow to about 85% or more. You consistently avoid those
details with vague generalities like,?
?
?
"I wonder if people would have a more favorable opinion of NCLB if they
were
told that it obligates states to improve their schools....?"?
?
?
Well gosh Art, I'd estimate off the cuff that oh, almost EVERYBODY would
agree with improving our schools. But NCLB is not improving our public
schools, it is destroying them. The proof is out there.?
?
?
"Does anyone outside of the spinmeisters at FairTest really think that
most
Americans want to leave those children behind.?"?
?
?
Hmm.at great risk I'm going out on a limb again and estimating that almost
100% of our nation's citizens will say they do not want any children left
behind. Great propaganda. But the NCLB definition of "leaving children
behind" is, as Jerry Bracey has pointed out, predicated on a false
dichotomy. How deceitful! (And shame on you for the disparaging remark
about
FairTest. They are most certainly not the spinmeisters). Ask
Bush/Spellings
and Co. to look in the mirror.?
?
?
Addressing the zero percent chance of 100% proficiency on eddra, you said
the following:?
?
?
"Arguing about the impossibility of all children proficient, either on
definitional or empirical grounds, is an exercise in silliness rooted in
failure to distinguish the goal of improving schools.from the goal of all
children proficient. The goal of all children proficient is supposed to
drive improvements to schools."?
?
?
Again I ask how you could in good conscience make such a statement about
the
impossible mandate of NCLB when it is on this very basis that children are
being wrongly labeled, teachers/administrators are losing their jobs,
public
schools are wrongly being labeled failing and are being closed? AN
EXERCISE
IN SILLINESS???
?
?
Please, Art, if you are going to defend NCLB, address these pesky details
and realities rather than issuing evasive generalities about what you
believe to be the law's good intentions. For starters, you might directly
address Jerry's Seven Deadly Absurdities of NCLB found here
http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/ross/archives/017314.html and elsewhere.
I'm
sure you've long been aware of Jerry's piece on the seven absurdities but
I
want you to ADDRESS them without evasion. And we could easily add to those
absurdities.?
?
?
Please don't scapegoat the states. Although I fault them for some things,
all are under the gun of reaching the impossible destination of 100%
proficiency, regardless of how they've calculated to um "get there". Most
understandably have plans in place which stave off as long as possible the
inevitable "failure" that will ensue. Love that NCLB "flexibility" granted
to the states!?
?
?
Tauna Rogers?
?
Educator Roundtable?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
From: <aburke5054@aol.com>?
To: <arn-l@interversity.org>?
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:46 AM?
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Mos U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind --
New
National Poll?
?
-----Original Message-----?
From: Bob Schaeffer <bobschaeffer@earthlink.net>?
To: ARN Main List <arn-l@interversity.org>; arn2-strategy
<arn2-strategy@yahoogroups.com>; rethinkaccountdc@yahoogroups.com?
Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:38 am?
Subject: [arn-l] Mos U.S. Adults Want to Leave "No Child" Behind -- New
National Poll?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
<>??
?
MAJORITY WOULD LIKE "NO CHILD" LAW LEFT BEHIND??
?
? Scripps Howard News Service -- May 30, 2007??
?
by Thomas Hargrove and Guido H. Stempel III??
??
?
?
...Participants in the poll were told that No Child Left Behind
"requires?
states to test elementary students to determine if schools do a good job?
teaching. Critics say the law forces teachers to teach to a particular?
test. From everything you've heard, do you think the No Child Left?
Behind Act has been good for public schools or not good?"??
??
?
Only about a third said they think the law has had a positive influence?
on public education while slightly less than half said it has had a?
negative impact and a fifth were undecided. ...?
??
---------------------------------------------------------------------------?
?
I wonder if people would have a more favorable opinion of NCLB if they
were told that it obligates states to improve their schools, particularly
schools that serve large numbers of poor children, minority children,
children with disabilities, and children learning English?? Does anyone
outside of the spinmeisters at FairTest really think that most Americans
want to leave those children behind or that they would not embrace the
notion that states should establish reasonable learning goals, administer
tests to measure children's progress towards those goals, and step in to
do something in schools where lots of children are falling behind??
?
Art?
?
?
?
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