Re: Interesting Panel You're on George C.

["Roberts, John - Vanguard High School" <robertsj1@marion.k12.fl.us>]

This so-called reform movement has nothing to do with education and the
experience of "learning". Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Art Burke [mailto:aburke@vansd.org]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 2:55 PM
To: arn-l@interversity.org
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Interesting Panel You're on George C.


Do not confuse "doing well on the SAT" with "doing well in high school
classes" with "doing well in high school classes that prepare you for
college"  with "doing well in college classes."  Those things are not
the same.

If you think that education reform is all and only about standardized
testing, you might consider trying to see a bigger picture.

Art


>>> kvscanty@pacbell.net 05/20/03 11:42AM >>>
Ok Art, back to my original comments...both the dean of the
undergraduate school and students who were sophomores and juniors who
spoke to us during orientation explained that students who did well in
high school - scored well on the SAT (a multiple choice test if I'm
not
mistaken) and other tests and had learned how to study to do that well
-
i.e., high SAT scores, probably high scores on the statewide exam
because these were kids who would have taken that exam seriously, high
scores on AP exams (some of which are better than others granted),
etc.
were not prepared for the courses in the university because they
actually had to APPLY the knowledge - not merely spit it back on a
multiple choice test.  One young woman almost dropped out of UCLA
because she had come into the university with becoming a doctor her
goal
- after all she did well in her science courses in high school but
began
to get D's in her science classes because she had not learned to apply
the "book" knowledge that she had to situations given to her on the
tests in her science classes at UCLA.  The dean said essentially the
same thing...that the major reason that students drop out their
freshman
year is that they cannot make the transition well...

So all we are doing in K-12, as far as I can tell, is MORE multiple
choice/standardized tests; MORE test prep time - which is supposed to
help these kids perhaps get into college and all I'm saying is that if
a
major California university is saying that it doesn't work, WHY are we
continuing to do more of what doesn't work?  Oh, that's right, I
forgot
- insanity - doing the same thing over and over expecting a different
outcome!!!!

If that's not clear or understandable, I'm sorry but I can't do any
more...

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: arn-l-owner@interversity.org
[mailto:arn-l-owner@interversity.org] 
On Behalf Of Art Burke
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 8:58 AM
To: arn-l@interversity.org 
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Interesting Panel You're on George C.

I don't know what you mean by "high stakes standardized tests" not
"working" for kids who want to go to college.  

Art 

>>> kvscanty@pacbell.net 05/20/03 08:35AM >>>
Art,

You ignored my question....

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: arn-l-owner@interversity.org 
[mailto:arn-l-owner@interversity.org] 
On Behalf Of Art Burke
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 8:20 AM
To: arn-l@interversity.org 
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Interesting Panel You're on George C.

The best thing to do for kids wanting to go to college is to teach
them
well in high school.

Art

>>> kvscanty@pacbell.net 05/19/03 03:22PM >>>
Art,

Then if it's true, why are we continuing and adding to the "wrong"
things to do in high school, i.e., high stakes standardized testing -
IF
it doesn't work for those kids who want to go to college?

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: arn-l-owner@interversity.org 
[mailto:arn-l-owner@interversity.org] 
On Behalf Of Art Burke
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 8:27 AM
To: arn-l@interversity.org 
Subject: Re: [arn-l] Interesting Panel You're on George C.

>>> kvscanty@pacbell.net 05/17/03 06:15PM >>>
...
why, when we went to a parent orientation program at UCLA, did the
Dean
of the Undergraduate 
school tell us that the hardest thing that students have to learn when
they enter the university is that they can no longer study the way
they
did in high school and do well at UCLA?  
__________________
Because it's true.

Art


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