Re: Illinois News as Propaganda

[Judi Hirsch <judih@OUSD.K12.CA.US>]

Dear Mary,
    I really enjoy reading what you have to say, and I wonder if my style is
what leads to your misunderstanding of my posts. I don't think being exposed
to bullying (or racism or classism) is a good thing, but merely wanted to
say that it exists, and that rather than protect a child from it, I would
want to help that child deal with it. In a public school we have all kinds
of situations, including bullying, and also a lot of other, positive things.
A child who bullies probably has learned this from his home, whether he sees
it or experiences it, and we, as teachers, can intervene since we see it. If
it were kept under wraps, we'd never know and thus never be able to help.
The same is true of disabilities, special talents, and a whole host of other
manifestations of life. I guess my point was that these things will occur in
a child's adult life, and I would like to help them learn to deal with them
as they grow up so they won't be surprised or paralyzed when they see these
things later on.
    I remember when I first started teaching and decided to make home
visits--I had never seen such poverty in my life. I ran out into the street
and vomited one afternoon after hoping to tell a mother that her son needed
glasses and might be retarded, but found her asleep on a couch with springs
coming through the cushions, sneakers by the sink, and a general sense of
awareness that it was my studnet, Jimmy, who was the responsible person at
home.
    Judi

----- Original Message -----
From: Jukka Räsänen <rasanen@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Illinois News as Propaganda


> my comments below:
>
> >"Kids want challenges, goals, structure and feedback, and that's what
they
> think tests give them."
> >
> >Roderick said even her graduate students want practice problems, she
said.
> "Wherever you go . . . students ask for lots of practice problems because
> that's how they think they learn," Roderick said.
> >
> >Roderick said the Sun-Times survey indicates the challenge for
policymakers
> is to channel student drive for feedback into something positive other
than
> tests.
> >
> >"You can structure feedback in other ways. You can say, in the beginning
of
> the year, `This is where you are and this is where you should be going,' "
> Roderick said. "The thing you learn from this is that kids want this kind
of
> >feedback."
>
> i think this is interesting.  'that's what they think tests give them',
> 'that's how they think they learn.".  implies, to me, that Roderick knows
> better.  i've thought that, besides opposing high-stakes testing, we
should
> really grab that bigger bull by the horns.  how do we ensure that kids get
> what they need from school?
>
> i think about this also while reading the
> homeschooling/voucher/charter/public school debate here.  i agree that
> public school as an institution needs to exist, for the reasons so
> eloquently given in quite a few posts by leo, judi, and others.  but to
> think that it is of value to a student to have to come into contact with
> bullying, racism, classism in an environment which does not support the
> constructive handling of these problems is in my opinion wrong, wrong,
> wrong.  and many schools do not handle these well.  ask the kid who has
> experienced bullying for his entire educational career if that was a
> valuable learning experience.  or if perhaps he/she could think of a
better
> one.
>
> schools need structural change, in my opinion.  i'm just starting to feel
> this way, and am beginning to believe it more and more strongly.
individual
> teachers who can overcome the limitations of the system are able to help
> students, but if our vision is of a democratic, pluralistic society which
> appreciates the talents and contributions of all, and schools are to
enable
> students to learn to live in such a society (which doesn't exist, as far
as
> i can tell from where i sit), then they're not doing the job.  or are
> schools to 'create' such a society?  since when have schools been that
> powerful?
>
> How do we ensure that kids get what they need from school?  on a
large-scale
> basis?  How do we do it?  Why is it that whenever we start talking about
> this, the discussion slips and slides?
>
> i must be discouraged today.
>
> mary
> rasanen@worldnet.att.net
>
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