Re: Re[2]: We're Not on the Same page Afterall...

[Maria Reyes <MReyes@MAIL515A.CDE.CA.GOV>]

Marty Henry: Your response about how you view testing is the first
common sense one I have read. Rest seem to be diatribes. But I am
learning something.

>>> Marty Henry <mhenry@MCREL.ORG> 10/14 12:14 PM >>>
     How do I begin?

     As I pursue this world of "testing" I am continually reminded that
     each piece of information can tell us something about the child,
     ourselves, or our teaching. If I have every indicator on a child
that
     she is performing within my classroom at a level equal to or above
her
     peers in my class/school, but does not reach that level on a
     standardized norm-referenced test, what does that say? Perhaps I
     haven't prepared the student to think in ways other than the way I
     teach; perhaps she is confused about the way items are constructed
and
     must become familiar with that format (my job?); perhaps she is
     studying just the things I teach to achieve on the test and doesn't
     have a big picture of the content/concept and where it fits into
other
     things (my teaching deficiency?); perhaps she was sick on that day;
     perhaps she has test anxiety (can I help address that?); perhaps
the
     test was weird...should I see evidences of that in other student's
     scores?

     It's just another data source for me to double check my teaching
and
     my student's learning. I don't put the weight of the world in them,
     nor the weight of a car, but perhaps the weight of a baseball. Have
     you ever carried a bag with a large number of baseballs in it? That
     many data points can give me a clearer idea of the learning
process.

     I won't ever condemn a specific kind of testing when used in
     conjunction with other assessment processes. Used alone, none of
them
     are sufficient.

     Marty

     Martha A. Henry Ed. D.
     HPC at McREL
     mhenry@mcrel.org


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: We're Not on the Same page Afterall...
Author:  Assessment Reform Network Mailing List <ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU>
at
Internet-Mail
Date:    10/12/98 10:28 AM


Marty Henry,

What usefulness would a teacher derive from norm referenced standardized
test
results for individual students.  I taught for many years and the only
benefit I
got
from these tests was to know that children are not automobiles and they
are more
different one from another than they are the same. The concept of
getting
students
up to grade level  is nonsense.  Each student , the teacher, and the
parent
needs to
know where the student is academically and what the next step might be.
Criterion
referenced tests can provide some of this information. I didn't find
norm
referenced
tests useful as a teaching tool and often they were misleading.

Jim Powell
powell@ns.net



Marty Henry wrote:

>      Nathan, I am interested to hear a little of your background about
why
>      you have such a deep disgust with these tests? Have you had an
>      unpleasant experience with them? Has taking these tests prevented
you
>      from achieving a goal? How do you prepare for them? What is your
>      feeling about taking the PSAT other than frustration? Can you
talk a
>      little more about these things?
>
>      Obviously several of us are educators and recognize the
shortcomings
>      of any single test or assessment. That is why we are in this
>      discussion. Tests tell us a lot of things about our students. One
test
>      does not tell us everything, however. Standardized tests have a
>      place...not necessarily the place they have in society today...in
>      helping us know our students better.
>
>      I understand your passion. We have all had it and feel it even in
our
>      old age! Let's try to focus your energy into some constructive
course
>      so that your needs can be met without eliminating something that
can
>      be valuable to educators.
>
>      Marty Henry
>      mhenry@mcrel.org
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
> Subject: We're Not on the Same page Afterall...
> Author:  Assessment Reform Network Mailing List
<ARN-L@listsrva.CUA.EDU> at
> Internet-Mail
> Date:    10/12/98 11:07 PM
>
> Dear ARN,
>         It's Nathan again. I don't know if any of you are high school
students
>  or have been recently, but never the less I am, and I represent the
> feelings of many of my fellow students. This is an
> exellent dialog we have here, but I am affraid Deanna did not
understand
> what I said in my first message. With all due repect to Deanna and
others
> in the Stndardized Testing field, who speak of "criteron-referenced
> testing" and "misuse of test scores", they are not getting at the same
> thing I am, nor are they taking an aproropriately social approch to
the
> issue. To set the record strait, I want to ABOLISH ALL STANDARDIZED
TESTS
> FOR ANY PURPOSE. I have taken these so called "criterion references
> tests" and the bottom line is the same. The entire idea of
Standardized
> Testing to me is an abomination to students who are subjected to them,
as
> well and society as a whole which is largely unaware of the
> Institutionalized racial, economical, gender and cultural biases and
> coutless injustices delt by the system. Call me an expreamist, but I
> speak from the front line, I take the PSAT in a week. Peace and
Regards,
>                                                         Nathan
Harrinton
>
>
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