Re: boycott

[Judi Hirsch <judih@OUSD.K12.CA.US>]

Hi Abril,
    I agree and would say even more. Tests really don't have any place in
education; supporting students to learn to work well together, to be
creative, to ask questions, to experiment, to have fun, is what I think
school is for. Unfortunately, too many people think school is about studying
for tests which is why so many students--both current and former--hate
school. Those who really love school are the ones who had or have a
wonderful teacher. If you don't believe me, just ask.
    Judi Hirsch
----- Original Message -----
From: abril mackenzie <abrilmackenzie@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: boycott


> I agree that if tests are used, you have laid out some good guidelines.  I
> also agree that tests can have their place if used properly.  But can a
> mandatory, high-stakes test ever be used properly?  There are too many
> factors that influence test results, such as handwriting, computer snafus,
> personality (response to stress), that are totally unrelated to mastery of
> material and highly correlated to test results for some students.  I don't
> object to optional high-stakes exams.  I may not think they are the best
> assessment, but sometimes you don't need the "best", only good enough.
> Particulary when used to help a student avoid taking a class where they
> already know the material.  But there ought to be options for students for
> whom high-stakes exams aren't a "good enough" measure.
>      Another concern I have to high-stakes exams is that you cannot have
> such exams, without bringing with it a culture of competition, and
resulting
> feelings of self-worth (negative for some, postive for others if you
> consider evaluating your worth by your test scores as positive).  I don't
> like either option and don't want my children (who score very well on
tests)
> to live in such an environment.  I suppose if tests are only part of an
> assessment system it lessons the impact.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Deanna M. De'Liberto" <Ddeliberto@AOL.COM>
> >Reply-To: Assessment Reform Network Mailing List <ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU>
> >To: ARN-L@LISTS.CUA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: boycott
> >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:05:24 EDT
> >
> >In a message dated 09/28/1999 11:35:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >Mneillft@AOL.COM writes:
> >
> > >
> > >  In a message dated 9/28/99 12:22:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >  Ddeliberto@AOL.COM writes:
> > >
> > >  > Of course,
> > >  >  if states do require that students pass the tests to graduate (as
> >opposed
> > >  to
> > >  >  just simply taking them), we will then revisit the issue of what
to
> >do
> > > when
> > >  >  the tests are flawed technically or used improperly.
> > >
> > >  But Deanna, requiring a test as an automatic hurdle is itself
improper
> >use
> > >  regardless of the technical quality of the test. Says so in the
> >standards
> >of
> > >  your profession.
> > >
> > >  Monty
> > >
> >I agree that the standards do state that tests should not be used as the
> >sole
> >measure for determining promotion/graduation but this is not the same
thing
> >as saying that students should not be required to pass tests as one of
many
> >other graduation requirements (course work, portfolios. etc.).  I realize
> >this is a very fine distinction and one that is certainly open to abuse
> >which
> >is why my message includes the phrase "used improperly" in the context of
> >this discussion of requiring students to pass tests.  I also stated that
> >either students should be required to pass the tests or do not make the
> >tests
> >a requirement at all.  What is the point of just requiring students to
> >simply
> >take a test?  My statement of requiring students to pass a test is in the
> >same vain that students are required to pass certain courses to
> >graduate--not
> >merely take them.  Hope this clarifies my intended message.
> >
> >If anyone still feels that my view somehow violates the standards of my
> >profession, please advise me citing the specific standard, source, and
page
> >number where I can take a closer look and better respond to this claim or
> >if
> >necessary alter my way of thinking on this issue.
> >
> >Deanna
> >===================================================
> >Deanna M. De'Liberto, President/Director of Assessment
> >D Squared Assessments, Inc.
> >(Specialists in Test Development/Validation and Test Administration)
> >9 Bedle Road, Suite 250
> >Hazlet, NJ 07730-1209
> >Phone:  (732) 888-9339
> >Email:    Ddeliberto@aol.com
> >Web:     http://www.quikpage.com/D/dsquared
> >
> >Member of the Association of Test Publishers
> >===================================================
> >
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