Re: San Diego UT on Prop 82

["nancy" <neansai@cox.net>]

College students can use government financial aid at the school of their
choice. 

 

This Proposition 82 will allow pre-school children to use government
financial aid at the school of their parents' choice. 

 

How, then, could the in-between years argue against vouchers for K-12
students?  

 

I don't see how adding another level of education to an already broken
system is a good idea. 

 

Any public school will have its curriculum and standards and materials
dictated by the state/federal government.  Whether that is benign or evil
depends on who is in power and what your point of view about education is.  

 

I don't like the idea of making pre-school teachers have to have
credentials.  Needing knowledge about child development is important, but
pre-school shouldn't be academic.  

 

Places like the National Council on Teacher Equality are already assaulting
colleges of education about their syllabi for teaching reading.  I don't
want them digging into pre-schools to that extent. 

 

The DIBELS people already have a pre-school DIBELS test-how many pictures a
child can name in a minute is one of the 3 or 4 tests.  Given the ubiquity
of DIBELS in elementary schools, it WILL happen in pre-schools and kids will
be labeled at risk before anyone even sees what their interests are, or
their aptitudes in other areas. 

 

Just because rotten things are happening in many public schools, I don't see
adding that problem to pre-schools as being very helpful.  

 

In addition, I don't think there is enough money to fund EVERY pre-schooler
in the state, and many parents who already pay for private school will suck
up some of that money from kids whose parents haven't been able to afford
pre-school, and still won't get it because the money will run out.  

 

Just look at what's happened with the NCLB tutoring and school choice. 

 

Voting No tomorrow on Proposition 82. 

 

Nancy

 

~Life may not be the party we hoped for,but while we are here we might as
well dance~

  _____  

From: ca-resisters-owner@interversity.org
[mailto:ca-resisters-owner@interversity.org] On Behalf Of Rich Gibson
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:15 PM
To: ca-resisters@interversity.org
Subject: Re: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82

 

George has it right.

I actually did it today. I voted. Disgusting. I hope it does not encourage
the riff raff. 

But I voted yes on prop 82 and tried to explain why in that second posting
that George Sheridan mentions.. .If anyone wants that, I will send it again,
but I won't clog mailboxes with it by sending it now. 

I have to say that I do not understand the opposition to  proposition 82
that comes from the Whole Language movement (and I may be misreading the
trends there, but such is how it appears to me---WL is opposed to prop 82). 

As far as I can tell , the Whole Language opposition believes that preschool
kids will be trapped in bad schools and regimented by the curricula of the
Empire and high-stakes testing. That could, of course, be true. 

In addition, some people opposing prop 82 seem to be saying that it will
lead to, or assist in, the end of public schooling. I do not follow that
logic at all. 

Bad regimented schooling is already true of the entire K12 world and it is
often the same people who are saying we must "defend public education" who
say we should defeat prop 82 (there is no such thing as a single public
education system in the US, but maybe six or seven utterly segregated and
inequitable school systems---ranging from pre prison to pre law depending
mostly on race and parental income of the kids in the school--- where
teachers for the most part teach lies--nationalism, etc--- to kids using
methods that are so incoherent that children not only are unable to unravel
the lies, they learn to not like to learn). 

It is commonplace for teachers in the not-public segregated US school system
to pay far more real attention to test scores and grammar than they do to
the equity clauses that are written all over US history and its paper
constitution. 

But I still hear passionate calls to "Defend Public Schooling," from people
who I respect while at the same time they organize vs prop 82. 

I honestly do not understand that. 

If it is true that prop 82 might/will lock preschool kids, the babies, into
rotten schools, then just how is it that this mere logical extension of
rotten schooling into the whole k12 world needs defending? What MIGHT be bad
about the preschools is ALREADY bad about k12. 

It seems to me that Defending Public Schools and Opposing Prop 82 is
contradictory. Perhaps someone can explain why it is not. 

In any case, I voted yes. And, I tried to make it clear in my earlier
posting that I am especially aware that I maybe wrong. That feeling comes
from the great respect that I have for people who I am told are voting NO,
but they can give me no good reason why they are doing it. I am more than
willing, eager to hear the other side of this. 

 I wrote in Susan Harmon for all the other existing offices. I especially
like Susan for Judge. 

Below is a quote about government as a weapon of the rich. I no longer feel
that I need to prove this approach to be true. To the contrary, with all the
evidence at hand, I think it is up to those who believe this is not true to
prove it. And, if this broad analysis of capitalist government is true, then
surely it is true of capital's schools, not OUR schools, but capital's,
THEIRS. 


    The state (government) is nothing but an instrument of oppression of one
class by another__no less so in a democratic republic than in a monarchy.
        Friedrich Engels, preface to Kark Marx, The Civil War in France,
1891
        German socialist & economist (1820 _ 1895)

best r


At 04:33 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, you wrote:



Children who attend quality preschool read earlier, learn faster and succeed
at a far higher rate than those who don't get the opportunity. Proposition
82 would provide free, voluntary, quality preschool to all 4-year-olds in
California. (Today, only 20 percent of the states 4-year-olds have this
opportunity.) Those who oppose this measure for various reasons are just
making excuses because they don't like the fact that Proposition 82 is
written so that the very wealthy will be made to foot the bill. 

The San Diego Union Tribune is even less likely than the Wall Street Journal
to give good advice on economic or social policy. I'm not sure even Rich
Gibson meant for us to be swayed by the paper's editorial position. Two
minutes after posting the message to which you replied, he sent a message
saying "I'm going to vote for this thing ... 
because I don't think it is useful to take what is largely a principle
(opposition to the capitalist state and its schools) related to most of
reality, and to force it down onto all of reality, when things are sometimes
more complex. I am going to vote for this thing because of some
complexities. ... I think if this thing passes, it creates better terrain
for social change."




At 06:38 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, Jo Behm wrote:



Agree Prop 82 should go down.




From: Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>
Reply-To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:33:25 -0700
To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
Subject: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82

 
Prop 82: No, no, no

Initiative is badly crafted, deceptively sold 


George Sheridan
Northside School
Cool, California 95614