Re: San Diego UT on Prop 82

[Susan Harman <susanharman@igc.org>]

Thanks, Rich. I graciously accept.
Susan

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>
> Date: Mon Jun 5, 2006  9:15:19 PM US/Pacific
> To: ca-resisters@interversity.org
> Subject: Re: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82
> Reply-To: ca-resisters@interversity.org
>
> George has it right.
>
> I actually did it today. I voted. Disgusting. I hope it does not 
> encourage the riff raff.
>
> But I voted yes on prop 82 and tried to explain why in that second 
> posting that George Sheridan mentions.. .If anyone wants that, I will 
> send it again, but I won't clog mailboxes with it by sending it now.
>
> I have to say that I do not understand the opposition to  proposition 
> 82 that comes from the Whole Language movement (and I may be 
> misreading the trends there, but such is how it appears to me---WL is 
> opposed to prop 82).
>
> As far as I can tell , the Whole Language opposition believes that 
> preschool kids will be trapped in bad schools and regimented by the 
> curricula of the Empire and high-stakes testing. That could, of 
> course, be true.
>
> In addition, some people opposing prop 82 seem to be saying that it 
> will lead to, or assist in, the end of public schooling. I do not 
> follow that logic at all.
>
> Bad regimented schooling is already true of the entire K12 world and 
> it is often the same people who are saying we must "defend public 
> education" who say we should defeat prop 82 (there is no such thing as 
> a single public education system in the US, but maybe six or seven 
> utterly segregated and inequitable school systems---ranging from pre 
> prison to pre law depending mostly on race and parental income of the 
> kids in the school--- where teachers for the most part teach 
> lies--nationalism, etc--- to kids using methods that are so incoherent 
> that children not only are unable to unravel the lies, they learn to 
> not like to learn).
>
> It is commonplace for teachers in the not-public segregated US school 
> system to pay far more real attention to test scores and grammar than 
> they do to the equity clauses that are written all over US history and 
> its paper constitution.
>
> But I still hear passionate calls to "Defend Public Schooling," from 
> people who I respect while at the same time they organize vs prop 82.
>
> I honestly do not understand that.
>
> If it is true that prop 82 might/will lock preschool kids, the babies, 
> into rotten schools, then just how is it that this mere logical 
> extension of rotten schooling into the whole k12 world needs 
> defending? What MIGHT be bad about the preschools is ALREADY bad about 
> k12.
>
> It seems to me that Defending Public Schools and Opposing Prop 82 is 
> contradictory. Perhaps someone can explain why it is not.
>
> In any case, I voted yes. And, I tried to make it clear in my earlier 
> posting that I am especially aware that I maybe wrong. That feeling 
> comes from the great respect that I have for people who I am told are 
> voting NO, but they can give me no good reason why they are doing it. 
> I am more than willing, eager to hear the other side of this.
>
>  I wrote in Susan Harmon for all the other existing offices. I 
> especially like Susan for Judge.
>
> Below is a quote about government as a weapon of the rich. I no longer 
> feel that I need to prove this approach to be true. To the contrary, 
> with all the evidence at hand, I think it is up to those who believe 
> this is not true to prove it. And, if this broad analysis of 
> capitalist government is true, then surely it is true of capital's 
> schools, not OUR schools, but capital's, THEIRS.
>
>
>     The state (government) is nothing but an instrument of oppression 
> of one class by another__no less so in a democratic republic than in a 
> monarchy.
>         Friedrich Engels, preface to Kark Marx, The Civil War in 
> France, 1891
>         German socialist & economist (1820 _ 1895)
>
> best r
>
>
> At 04:33 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>
> Children who attend quality preschool read earlier, learn faster and 
> succeed at a far higher rate than those who don't get the opportunity. 
> Proposition 82 would provide free, voluntary, quality preschool to all 
> 4-year-olds in California. (Today, only 20 percent of the stateís 
> 4-year-olds have this opportunity.) Those who oppose this measure for 
> various reasons are just making excuses because they don't like the 
> fact that Proposition 82 is written so that the very wealthy will be 
> made to foot the bill.
>
> The San Diego Union Tribune is even less likely than the Wall Street 
> Journal to give good advice on economic or social policy. I'm not sure 
> even Rich Gibson meant for us to be swayed by the paper's editorial 
> position. Two minutes after posting the message to which you replied, 
> he sent a message saying "I'm going to vote for this thing ...
> because I don't think it is useful to take what is largely a principle 
> (opposition to the capitalist state and its schools) related to most 
> of reality, and to force it down onto all of reality, when things are 
> sometimes more complex. I am going to vote for this thing because of 
> some complexities. ... I think if this thing passes, it creates better 
> terrain for social change."
>
>
>
>
> At 06:38 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, Jo Behm wrote:
>
> Agree Prop 82 should go down.
>
>
>
>
> From: Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>
> Reply-To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
> Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:33:25 -0700
> To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
> Subject: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82
>
>  
> Prop 82: No, no, no
>
> Initiative is badly crafted, deceptively sold
>
>
> George Sheridan
> Northside School
> Cool, California 95614