Re: San Diego UT on Prop 82

[Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>]

Just remember us little people who put you there Susan.

Always good to have a judge who can waive bail... I know.

best r


At 09:45 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, you wrote:
> Thanks, Rich. I graciously accept.
> Susan
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>
> > Date: Mon Jun 5, 2006  9:15:19 PM US/Pacific
> > To: ca-resisters@interversity.org
> > Subject: Re: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82
> > Reply-To: ca-resisters@interversity.org
> >
> > George has it right.
> >
> > I actually did it today. I voted. Disgusting. I hope it does not 
> > encourage the riff raff.
> >
> > But I voted yes on prop 82 and tried to explain why in that second 
> > posting that George Sheridan mentions.. .If anyone wants that, I will 
> > send it again, but I won't clog mailboxes with it by sending it now.
> >
> > I have to say that I do not understand the opposition to  proposition 82 
> > that comes from the Whole Language movement (and I may be misreading the 
> > trends there, but such is how it appears to me---WL is opposed to prop 82).
> >
> > As far as I can tell , the Whole Language opposition believes that 
> > preschool kids will be trapped in bad schools and regimented by the 
> > curricula of the Empire and high-stakes testing. That could, of course, 
> > be true.
> >
> > In addition, some people opposing prop 82 seem to be saying that it will 
> > lead to, or assist in, the end of public schooling. I do not follow that 
> > logic at all.
> >
> > Bad regimented schooling is already true of the entire K12 world and it 
> > is often the same people who are saying we must "defend public education" 
> > who say we should defeat prop 82 (there is no such thing as a single 
> > public education system in the US, but maybe six or seven utterly 
> > segregated and inequitable school systems---ranging from pre prison to 
> > pre law depending mostly on race and parental income of the kids in the 
> > school--- where teachers for the most part teach lies--nationalism, 
> > etc--- to kids using methods that are so incoherent that children not 
> > only are unable to unravel the lies, they learn to not like to learn).
> >
> > It is commonplace for teachers in the not-public segregated US school 
> > system to pay far more real attention to test scores and grammar than 
> > they do to the equity clauses that are written all over US history and 
> > its paper constitution.
> >
> > But I still hear passionate calls to "Defend Public Schooling," from 
> > people who I respect while at the same time they organize vs prop 82.
> >
> > I honestly do not understand that.
> >
> > If it is true that prop 82 might/will lock preschool kids, the babies, 
> > into rotten schools, then just how is it that this mere logical extension 
> > of rotten schooling into the whole k12 world needs defending? What MIGHT 
> > be bad about the preschools is ALREADY bad about k12.
> >
> > It seems to me that Defending Public Schools and Opposing Prop 82 is 
> > contradictory. Perhaps someone can explain why it is not.
> >
> > In any case, I voted yes. And, I tried to make it clear in my earlier 
> > posting that I am especially aware that I maybe wrong. That feeling comes 
> > from the great respect that I have for people who I am told are voting 
> > NO, but they can give me no good reason why they are doing it. I am more 
> > than willing, eager to hear the other side of this.
> >
> >  I wrote in Susan Harmon for all the other existing offices. I 
> > especially like Susan for Judge.
> >
> > Below is a quote about government as a weapon of the rich. I no longer 
> > feel that I need to prove this approach to be true. To the contrary, with 
> > all the evidence at hand, I think it is up to those who believe this is 
> > not true to prove it. And, if this broad analysis of capitalist 
> > government is true, then surely it is true of capital's schools, not OUR 
> > schools, but capital's, THEIRS.
> >
> >
> >     The state (government) is nothing but an instrument of oppression of 
> > one class by another__no less so in a democratic republic than in a monarchy.
> >         Friedrich Engels, preface to Kark Marx, The Civil War in France, 
> > 1891
> >         German socialist & economist (1820 _ 1895)
> >
> > best r
> >
> >
> > At 04:33 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > Children who attend quality preschool read earlier, learn faster and 
> > succeed at a far higher rate than those who don't get the opportunity. 
> > Proposition 82 would provide free, voluntary, quality preschool to all 
> > 4-year-olds in California. (Today, only 20 percent of the stateís 
> > 4-year-olds have this opportunity.) Those who oppose this measure for 
> > various reasons are just making excuses because they don't like the fact 
> > that Proposition 82 is written so that the very wealthy will be made to 
> > foot the bill.
> >
> > The San Diego Union Tribune is even less likely than the Wall Street 
> > Journal to give good advice on economic or social policy. I'm not sure 
> > even Rich Gibson meant for us to be swayed by the paper's editorial 
> > position. Two minutes after posting the message to which you replied, he 
> > sent a message saying "I'm going to vote for this thing ...
> > because I don't think it is useful to take what is largely a principle 
> > (opposition to the capitalist state and its schools) related to most of 
> > reality, and to force it down onto all of reality, when things are 
> > sometimes more complex. I am going to vote for this thing because of some 
> > complexities. ... I think if this thing passes, it creates better terrain 
> > for social change."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 06:38 PM 6/5/2006 -0700, Jo Behm wrote:
> >
> > Agree Prop 82 should go down.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Rich Gibson <rgibson@pipeline.com>
> > Reply-To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
> > Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:33:25 -0700
> > To: <ca-resisters@interversity.org>
> > Subject: [ca-resisters] San Diego UT on Prop 82
> >
> >
> > Prop 82: No, no, no
> >
> > Initiative is badly crafted, deceptively sold
> >
> >
> > George Sheridan
> > Northside School
> > Cool, California 95614
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Report list problems to listmom@interversity.net